Thread: the fillet in a beading plane?

Hi Clinton,

The link to Brunner's shows 5 beading planes, 4 are side beaders and the one on the right, a center bead.

The fillet is there to provide clearance for the plane body and a nice transition from the surface to the bead. One could in theory have the fillet come to a point, but the bead would loose some definition as an entity both individually and as part of the main surface.

The center bead requires a fillet on both sides in order to cut down into the surface whereas the side beads only require the parting fillet in from the edge.

The fillet is required to allow the body of a beading plane to fully form the bead. Fillets are sized to a scale found to be pleasing to the size of the bead. At least, we've been forced into this size of bead and its fillet.

Some makers have narrower fillets, some larger. But they are all roughly the same width.

A H&R--really the hollow--cannot cut down into a surface as the body will interfer with the cutting action. Also, H&Rs have two main sizing schemes, neither which was strictly adhered to by either the British nor the American companies.

Larry Williams of Clark & Williams has the start of a paper he was writing on the C&W website concerning the sizing of H&Rs. Interesting insofar as he has it written.

Hope I helped...Take care, Mike

Thanks Mike, but I'll ask for some clarification!

the fillet allows a nice transition - got it. Also adds some depth to the edge of the moulding, without which the moulding (on the plane) would reduce to a sharp angle and be easily damaged. ?

Centre bead - as in the centre of a moulding, or with a flat surface on each side? i.e. the fillet is there to allow the plane to ride down into the shape being cut, and is needed on each side of profile because the plane descends into the wood.
If there was a flat side (the side of the plane body) instead of the fillet, the plane would be held up by whatever is to the side of the shape being cut; i.e. if the sides were higher than the shape being cut.

Side beader - the side with the fillet 'fits' the side with a proud surface i.e. a moulding thats higher than the surface being cut. The other side is against the part of the moulding that is either lower, or is to be left unformed?

The hollow that can't cut down into the surface - so it is only used on an edge? i.e for built up mouldings, table edges...?

If you could clarify things, and pick me up if I'm steering the wrong way I'd appreciate it.
Don't worry about putting it in simple terms, if you do it will match my current knowledge of things, i.e. simple and ignorant!

Thanks for your time so far Mike.

I'll have a stab at it. But, I think your overcomplicating it. Just a touch.

First thing. You use them all with the grain. (obvious..shrug)

What you really need I think is to hold one in your hands and sight down the sole against some light and see for yourself how the blade protrudes around the soles profile.

The centre bead really needs to be guided by a batton thats clamped to your stock. (or nailed in :eek: )

With the beading plane I have you don't need a batton. See, the curved portion of the sole, extends below the fillet enough that it rubs the edge of your stock long enough for the fillet to cut a deep enough groove to establish a kind of stability. It sort of finds itself. Quite interesting really how it works. I've got a picture here somewhere...The thing won't let me attach it again. It says I've already posted it....its here anyway. Post #9 of http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=19831

Start learning with a small bead first. The wider they get, the more resistance and the harder they are to control and set, cause they need to be set for a finer cut than a small bead. Else to hard to push. So, I'd start with the smallest bead you can find.

The biggest problem your going to have is sharpening them. Its Really a big problem Clinton. Far more important than understanding the jargon ...uno, radii etc.

There's no reason why you can't use that no.50 of yours for beading. I'd practise using that first. Much easier to sharpen, cause you don't have to conform to the exact profile which is what makes the wooden moulding planes so hard to use. I've got a few beading plane blades lying about for a #50. If really interested, to get a feel at least, I'll sharpen one up and send to you..... Have a go on pine. Same picture problem as before...
post #18 of http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...t=23322&page=2

anyway goodluck. gota go to bed.

Originally Posted by apricotripper

First thing. You use them all with the grain. (obvious..shrug)

It seems to me that unless you have a matching left and right handed pair, you will have to use them against the grain, at least occasionally. Am I missing something? Also, how do you handle the end grain of table tops or raised panels? Do you switch to scratch stock for all these cases?

Originally Posted by javali

It seems to me that unless you have a matching left and right handed pair, you will have to use them against the grain, at least occasionally. Am I missing something? Also, how do you handle the end grain of table tops or raised panels? Do you switch to scratch stock for all these cases?

Don't you mean cross grain, not end grain? On a table top your cutting down across the grain, not cutting down into the end grain...The difference is enormous. cross grain cuts very easily, whereas cutting down end grain is, as you know, hard work....thats why shooting boards (end grain) are a must,,, to give more stability to your work and plane when the cut puts up more of a fight. ....just an opinion.

Anyway, I don't think the beads are intended accross grain of table tops. They don't have nickers for starters which without means the possibility of tear at the cuts shoulder (depending on the wood), also the blades arn't skewed, which is how you confirgure a plane for cross grain. ...scratch stocks arn't much chop either cross grain in general IMO....really isn't an old darksider method for profiles cross grain...Furniture design, I feel, has evolved with this in mind I'd say. Thats why you see mitres everywhere in decrotive profiles...

But, coincidently, cross grain profiles is what I'm working on right now. I've made a couple of planes....Still tossing up whether or not I should post pictures of them.....uno, give away MY IDEA. I mean, how horrible would it be for somebody to pinch my idea, and make money off it, all cause I wanted to show it off.

Your right, you'll find yourself going against grain sometimes just with a single plane, but in general the problem is overcome by just thinking ahead and organise your stock so that these beads are cut with grain...but even when you stuff up, often the results are passable cutting against. .....so you don't really need pairs of beads, IMO.

Agree sharpening them is a pain, I've used mine on pine till they went blunt (bought them sharp) and now have to put them aside till I get a sharpening system. Only got one Side Bead (thanks Mike, now I know the proper name!) and a Hollow.

I will probably shamelessly rip off your sharpening system Jake!

Originally Posted by Clinton1

Agree sharpening them is a pain, I've used mine on pine till they went blunt (bought them sharp) and now have to put them aside till I get a sharpening system. Only got one Side Bead (thanks Mike, now I know the proper name!) and a Hollow.

I will probably shamelessly rip off your sharpening system Jake!

:mad: Bastard !

Well, I see I have been remiss in not checking in of late--sorry Clinton.

Jake pretty much answered the questions up above.

But to clarify the use of H&R, they can and are used off the edge. In general, they are used for making up moldings such as crown molding and smaller, hence the graduated sizes.

I made a drawing once to show a fellow the sequence of cutting a particular profile. Most of the wasting of where the rounds are used is first cut with various sizes of plow cutters. The square groove left behind in turn is used for guiding the round even though it isn't explicitly shown in the image.

It is probably self explanatory, and shows use of the various cutters. Clicking on the image opens a large version.

Champion Mike, much appreciated.

Yes, thats brilliant. Numbers clarify entirely. I can use that too, thanks Mike.

You guys are very welcome!

The fuller picture that showed the plow cut for where the rounds cut made it too busy--and I was too lazy to make two drawings. So the plow cuts with different width plow blades at positions 6 and 7 are done immediately before the rounds are used.

Another reason one needs at least 2 plow planes...one that gets plow blades swaped in and out, and another one that is set up with the center sliding section for the profile cutters.

Some people start from one edge and work across to the other side and you may find that a better way. The reason I typically start in the center is to cut my errors in half. I know where the centerline needs to be, so deviation on the profiles tend to show up as one works from a given point.

By beginning in the center any error that creeps in tends to be less by the time I get to either outside edge.

Take care, Mike

Originally Posted by MikeW

You guys are very welcome!
Some people start from one edge and work across to the other side and you may find that a better way. The reason I typically start in the center is to cut my errors in half. I know where the centerline needs to be, so deviation on the profiles tend to show up as one works from a given point.

By beginning in the center any error that creeps in tends to be less by the time I get to either outside edge.

Thanks Mike. I like tips like these. Can make all the difference.

Do you know of many people, besides yourself, who use H&R's a lot. It have to be a rare practise now days I'd say, yes ? Thats why I value tips like these so much. There wouldn't be many places, especially off the net, where one can learn such things.

Thanks mate.

I have read messages by people who do use them. As for the famous, Garrett Hack does. I met a man several years ago who used them all the time to reproduce large crown moldings and other molding profiles no longer available, which is how I use them for the most part.

Too busy making saws of late to do much cabinet work, though. I have several projects on the honey-do list that will make use of them. I love using them. It's really a fairly quick way to make moldings.

When not trying to match something, I've used old books and illustrations of yesteryear's moldings to come up with profiles that I typically alter. One way to make the piece mine and unique.

Take care, Mike

Good stuff Mike.
Do you design your own profiles and mouldings? Thats a bit of a fine art there, and I've been lucky enough to get a hold of the Chippendale "Director" which has lots of good patterns.
Sooo... Mike says get another plough plane.... good enough for me!
EDIT: you answered my question before I posted it.