Hands V Machinery

**Andy Mac** · 16th August 2005, 12:59 PM

Whooaa there!:eek:

Yes. rampant consumption as started by the Industrial Revolution is out of control, and anyone that buys a product, any product, is implicated. But to turn your back on all there is to offer, I don't know! Turn your back on some but not others is a bit selective. We wouldn't even be in this country if it wasn't for industry, building ships. Then there is the view we shouldn't be...

Anyway, I'm sure your life is sticky with industrial products...your housing (corro, lino, taps even?); clothing and footwear; maybe you don't own a car, but we know you own a computer

When it comes to hand tools you've already suggested you should make them yourself, but do you make the steel from iron ore first (like that dude in Thompson's Rare Trades). Do you make the charcoal, not that it doesn't get done around here...Do you make a hammer before you start pounding the iron ore, I mean where do you draw the line!!? I read an autobiography by James Nasmyth, a Scottish pioneer of engineering, who made lathes and milling machines, invented the steam hammer, and many such developments. He made an interesting point that all the machines he manufactured were the progeny of his first lathe, which he made himself, using his father's handmade lathe. A family tree of tools, and many of the handtools made by industry today could well be the descendents of his lathe. I think he was proud of what he did....

**Termite** · 16th August 2005, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by silentC

OK, I up my "one hell of an obsession you have there" to "what a load of bollocks". Bit early in the morning to be smoking isn't it?

So, how did you post this message, or do computers get a special exemption from your no machine policy?

Ah yes, a TOTAL HYPOCRITE!

**HappyHammer** · 16th August 2005, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by aeg20boat

Fun for me is a wake up call, I most enjoy being humiliated by mother........

Uhmmmm.

HH.

**silentC** · 16th August 2005, 01:08 PM

only one type of person emerges ... with a tool in his hands

Uh huh....

**HappyHammer** · 16th August 2005, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by aeg20boat

....just like most of you, .......at heart, quite a lethargic scumbag......

Whilst accurate about some, you know who you are, a little harsh I think...

HH.

**Wongo** · 16th August 2005, 01:34 PM

aeg20boat, mate be a believer but don't be an extremist.

**craigb** · 16th August 2005, 01:43 PM

Is this another troll?

**Termite** · 16th August 2005, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by craigb

Is this another troll?

Or just a Richard Cranium.

I really have taken offence to this whatever it may be. :mad: :mad: :mad:

**zenwood** · 16th August 2005, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by silentC

OK, I up my "one hell of an obsession you have there" to "what a load of bollocks"...

aeg20boat yearns ardently for a world that no longer exists, perhaps never existed.

I wonder whence the charcoal comes that he uses to forge his tools. Is it from naturally fallen trees, or were they felled? Are the tools pure if the charcoal is from wood felled by impure men?

**HappyHammer** · 16th August 2005, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by zenwood

aeg20boat yearns ardently for a world that no longer exists, perhaps never existed.

Not in his lifetime he's only 21.

HH.

**zenwood** · 16th August 2005, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by HappyHammer

Not in his lifetime he's only 21.

Nor ours, nor our great, great grandparents. Perhaps not since the bronze age. Steam power was known to the Greeks in the year 100 (Hero of Alexandria), and was used in England to power fountains in 1609 (Salamon da Caus). Scientific investigations of steam power go back to Denis Papin (1647-1712), and engineering using steam began with Newcomen (1712), Watt (1775), and on through the industrual revolution.

The Chinese had sophisticated gas- and water-powered technology even earlier, as did many other cultures.

**Wongo** · 16th August 2005, 02:06 PM

I am glad that you did mention the Chinese otherwise I would have been very cheesed off.

You are right we WERE sophisticated.

**lesmeyer** · 16th August 2005, 02:13 PM

G'day,
was watching Modern Masters on the How to Channel. They featured an interview with possibly one of the most influential woodworkers of the last 50 years - Sam Maloof. They showed him preparing a leg for one of his famous rocking chairs. Piece of timber in one hand and a router in the other hand. This must be the way we define "hand made". Even the great Sam Maloof will use machinery (many examples of these in his workshop) to his advantage. He is also a master when using dark side tools. His attitude seems to be to use whatever will give the best results.
Have a great day
Les

**zenwood** · 16th August 2005, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Wongo

I am glad that you did mention the Chinese otherwise I would have been very cheesed off.

They also pre-dated Gutenberg in moveable type printing by several hundred years (11th century, following book-printing using xylography and other methods going back to about the year dot), so are the true originators of the democratisation of information.

Originally Posted by Wongo

we WERE sophisticated.

**silentC** · 16th August 2005, 02:49 PM

This must be the way we define "hand made"

The dictionary definition of the term is fairly vague. It is defined more by what it is not: made by machine. In other words, an item not manufactured by a machine. It says that the item must not be made by a machine but it does not say that a human cannot use machines in the making of it. This depends upon your interpretation.

If you want to be a purist (or an extremist) you might say that something is only handmade if you only use handtools. Personally I think that is as silly as saying that only people who can walk naked into the scrub and return with clothes on their backs deserve to be alive. This is only my opinion.

At the end of the day, who gives a stuff? If you want to forge your own tools and chop down your own trees for timber then go for it. If you want to say my things are not handmade because I used a machine at some point in the process, I will politely allow you to keep your head snuggly within your sphincter. That is your prerogative.

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