Thread: holz-her hand held power saw.

great find.

it certainly has that old festo look about it.

hopefully gerhard can come to the rescue here.

justin.

Hi Lloyd and Justin,

Reich made this saw in the early 70's (yours is probably from 1971 or '72). It was entirely their own design, and they also made it for Bosch, first in similar grey, later in the familiar Bosch blue. The blade safety guard flap takes getting used to. It encloses the blade almost entirely when shut, which is safe but also blocks the view on the blade completely. When being pushed open during sawing, the flap sticks out a mile above the machine and after sawing it flaps shut again with quite a bang, because of both the spring and its own bulk. I find this construction one of the ergonomically stupidest solutions on the market ever to be invented as a blade guard, but it is the only drawback on this saw that i can think of. On all other accounts this is a good machine.

The motor housing was also used on some planer models (second pic) and on a few other saw types. Reich machines were first made from alloy, sprayed in a silver-grey hammerite finish. Their first double insulated tools had motor housings made from pressure-moulded fibre-reinforced resin, which was coloured brown. The first Holz Her plunge saws became known and famous in that colour. When reinforced industrial nylon was the fashion from the latter 60's/ early 70's, Holz Her decided on grey (as shown in your saw), but so did Festo. Holz Her added orange details, whereas Festo had green details. Holz Her changed to bright orange and black in the latter 70's. The famous Derby tool line (like the Mosquito plunge saw and the famous in-line belt sander) became known worldwide in this distinctive orange. In the mid 80's Holz Her changed to dark gray, with the familiar orange and black as colour accents. The Holz Her brand was purchased by Festo around 1999, to get rid of a staunch competitor in the precision saw market. A few years later, a bit of the Holz Her heritage combined with new developments, was carried on with the new Spero brand.

Karl Matthias Reich originally made stationary woodworking machines, but started to make portable ones in 1925. "Holz her!" as originally a cry from the roofing trade. Whenever the German chippies on the rooftop were done with securing another beam, they yelled "Holz her!" to the guys below to have the next beam reached up to them. "Holz her!" would roughly translate into something like "Pass the timber!" Reich decided that the famous German yell could double as a fitting product line name for handheld machines eager to sink their teeth into a fresh piece of timber.

Reich was one of the pioneers daring to use non-metal gearcases. Alloy gear cases were always relied upon to provide precise and robust bearing seatings and to draw away heat from the gears, bearings and grease. So it was frowned upon to go for a dubious choice like an all-plastic gear case, but Reich managed to construct a good solution nevertheless. The heat problem was avoided by using perfectly ground gear teeth and to apply gears and bearings of generous proportions. Should you decide to take your saw apart to clean and inspect it inside and out, you will notice a sets of gears and bearings with almost no surrounding metal. Still, the Reich choice has proven to be sound enough over the decades. All the in-line belt sander models derived from the initial design (including the heavy duty 1400 Watts 105 mm range) still have no metal gearcase. The motor-arbour-outlay from your 284 saw model was souped up to a 2.1 kW in 1973 and the Dutch firm Van Voorden even chose it as a reliable power source for their diamond blade masonry wall saw "Diasaw". Imagine, a saw in such a tough and abrasive application, fitted with a metal blade protection hood, but with a power unit that incorporates a mere nylon gearcase! Even so, it was a sales success and Diasaws can still be spotted in Dutch building and reno-sites, so there must have been a decent amount of quality involved here.

I must have an exact copy of your saw (albeit Bosch-branded) lying around somewhere in the storage shed (the first pic is from that very machine), it's also in grey. I'll try to find it, although i don't think my copy will reveal much more from type plates and such than you already have established for yourself. I also doubt that much can be found on the web, since the machine is approx. 40 years old by now. To obtain spare parts you will have to track down and cannibalise a similar machine. Even for modern Holz Her machines, Festo has been quick to kill off all available spare part stocks soon after their Holz Her purchase, to lure customers in need of parts into its own camps for spares or -better still- for new replacement machines. But if you want a lookout for parts or are in need of specific technical info on your machine, let me know and i'll search for you.

greetings!

gerhard

thank you very much gerhard.

Thanks Gerhard, for the information you provided about the Holz-Her electric hand held saw i bought, you provided a good deal of information on the saw. On a closer inspection mine has the riving knife missing but if i play my hand right my son inlaw will make one for me ,i think stainless steel would look nice .what you said about the saw guard i noticed the arkward feel to it also and the heavyness about the whole saw,the little hand nob for the left hand on the front is a quite different feel to todays saws.Lloyd.

Hi Lloyd,

when i found my own copy of your saw, i'll make an exact true scale drawing with specified measurements of the riving knife and post it here.
As change would have it, the brand new little Holz Her Mosquito plunge saw i grabbed from Ebay Germany recently, came in this very afternoon. Wonderful machines, these Reich saws.

In the previous post i wrote that i could only mention the awkward safety guard flap as the machine's single design drawback, but i remembered another one.

As you may have noticed; the entire motor/gear/sawblade/safety hood assembly is attached to the sole plate by means of one upright piece of spot-welded profiled steel rail and one butterfly fastening knob only. Holz Her also applied cast alloy riveted upright rails instead of the spot-welded steel ones. The machine can be slided along this rail for adjustable saw depth and the single knob is meant to keep the machine in place. In fact this is a "one point suspension", whereas most circular saws are fastened to the sole plate at the front and at the back. This is a weak point in the design. It is stable and satisfactory enough as long as the rail retains its shape, but bending or warping can happen during a simple fall of the machine on a hard floor.

I once bought the smallest Holz Her Derby saw model, featuring the same construction, for an absolute bargain price. It seemed to be one of my best buys ever, until i used it. There was not a single decent cut to be had from it, the machine struggled even in thin material and the cut was rougher than it should be, although there was nothing visibly wrong with the machine and its blade was new and sharp. On closer inspection, the mounting rail was ever so slightly warped, which resulted in the motor unit and its saw blade no longer being in exact parallel line with the sole and the fence. It took a while to ever so gently beat the rail from the slightly bent and warped back to a perfect upright 90 degree position. The machine had been a shelf display model for many years. During that time it must have been touched by many hands and changes are high that someone may have dropped the machine by accidents at some point of time.

So when your saw performs well, no worries, and if it cuts awkwardly, you know what to look for.

Indeed there is not much of a second/front handle, but this machine was mainly meant for single-handed operation with a fence or a clamped guiding rail. Only large and very large Holz Her saws did have decent second handles or grips. Ergonomics were not yet a strongpoint of the average circular saw in the 60's and early 70's.

The pics below show the little Mosquito plunge saw that came in today; this machine is approx 60% the size of your saw. It's a rare item in having survived unused from the latter 70's up to now and the livery is the bright orange of the Holz Her Derby tool line of those days. The motor housing incorporates an all nylon section for the gears and in this case a serious handling knob was added to the front, because machines like these were specifically bought and used for precision jobs. The small Derby i mentioned above had the same motor and gears as this Mosquito, but was fitted with the single rail fixture. The Mosquito is suspended with a decent and much stiffer hinge at the back.

greetings

gerhard

Forgot to explain one detail: you mentioned the type plate quote "4min./6" This means that the machine can be used for 4 minutes at nominal load (power intake of 1250 Watts) and has to cool down for 6 minutes before it can be used for another 4 minutes of nominal workload.

The mentioning of such a specification is quite common on German (and many other European) electric motors and machines. It is useful information, because explaining the circumstances under which the ratings should be understood, also comprises good advice on proper use and avoiding damage. When taking notice of the advice, you will never overload the machine to the extent that it will overheat and burn out.

"Continuous duty" means, that a machine can be used continuously (= 24 on 7) with a workload that requires the specified power intake. German for Continuous Duty is "Dauerbetrieb", shorted to "DB". So if a machine plate reads "500 W DB", the motor can be loaded up to 500 Watts intake for long periods of time. AEG machines between 1930 and 1950 were even honest enough to mention the net motor output in Watts, and to mention the intake in Amps seperately. So a beefy AEG drill reading "375 W DB" seemed puny for its size, but in fact the motor was capable of 1/2 hp continuously. Another plate quote reading "3.3 A" told you that the motor took approx 680 Watts on 220 volts in order to deliver that 1/2 hp. AEG continued to supply such honest information up to the early 80's, but used only the input on the type plate and the output in the manual for the few readers that were interested. In most cases AEG stayed true to continuous rating specs ion many power tools, with the DB changed into the new code "S1". On the SB2E-600 drill, for instance, you could see "600W S1", meaning that the motor could run under load continuously with an intake of 600 Watts. The manual told you that the output at the front spindle was then 300 Watts, meaning a machine efficiency of 50%. Most other tool brands didn't even tell if their specified wattage was uner S1 conditions; there even was a growing trend to use ever more exaggerated specs which could only be sustained for minutes or seconds. Those high Wattage counts looked good in ads and brochures and made AEG look bad, so eventually they too thought "what the heck" and only explained their specs in the manuals and no longer on the type plates.

Since we're on this topic anyway, i will explain the other S-types ("Schaltbetriebe" or "switching modes"):

S1: continuous duty

S2: limited time duty, followed by a specified amount of time, e.g. "S2 30 min." The tool can be used for 30 minutes and has to cool down to the surrounding temperature level before it is fit to be used for another 30 minutes.

S3: full load duty, followed by a cooling down period at a powerless stand-still. This is the type of switching mode that is specified on your machine. As a rule, a 10 minute base is used; so 6 minutes cooling down at power-down for every 4 minutes of full load action. Full load action in German is "Aussetzbetrieb", shorted to AB, and "switch-on time" is "Einschaltdauer", shorted to ED. So "4 min.on/6 min.off" could also be written as "AB 40% ED" (the full load time equals 40% switch-on time, followed by 60% switch-off time, which speaks for itself and needn't be mentioned. You also know how many minutes that 40% must be when you know the 10 minute rule). AB/ED specs are from the same generation as "DB", used before the S-specs became the new standard.

S4: like S3, but with winding heating during accelerations taken into account. S4 is used for machines that have to start and stop many times per minute or hour, because starting current tends to be much higher than nominal running currents. With S4, it is customary to mention the amount of start-up cycles in a 10 minute or 60 minute period as well.

S6: continuous running with idle periods and full load periods. Before the S-notation, this switch mode was abreviated with "DKB" "Dauerbetrieb mit Kurzzeitbelastung" or "continuous load with load intervals"). S6 is often used for stationary machines (like thicknessers, CNC routers, production line roller lanes, conveyor belts and escalators).

S5, 7, 8 and 9 apply to special circumstances like acceleration with heavy masses, frequent stalling torques, electric braking, multispeeds, etc. They are hardly ever used on power tools and rather apply to special industrial drives.

I've added some example pic. When you look very closely at the blue AEG drill, you can see S1 on the right of the black adhesive type plate (i couldn'n find a good S1 close-up pic). The green AEG is a vintage example of true specified output Watts, the Festo belt sander shows the AB/ED code.

have fun reading German machine type plates!

gerhard

I bought a Holz-Her plunge saw off ebay for GBP 4.99 i have used it to make into a table saw, what a piece of quality engineering, 5000rpm lots of power driving the 230mm blade great control solid tool.

I have also aquired a table saw currently in restoration and redemption, made by a company in Australia, it is a Douglas Comparator Trimming saw (that's what it says on the tag), all cast iron, heavy duty thrust bearings, precision controlled fence which advances in micro inches into the blade, sprung loaded holding down device, sliding table on large ball bearings in a vee track between table and base, the blade has 2 functions, main blade for severing the wood, and 3 x HSS tools which protrude through the main blade each tool is 3/8" diameter to provide an adjustable rebate feature, the motor drive is 1HP through a vee belt to the blade spindle, the machine overall size is about 30" square and very heavy, a nice bit of history, the guy who gave it to me made his windows for the house with it, but i think that this would have been sacrillage to use this very accurate machine for such use.
It looks as though this machine was used for making very accurte items for the cabinet making business???
I would like to know if anyone in the forum has one of these machines or knows of such a machine, i have searched the net with no luck.

Originally Posted by gerhard

Forgot to explain one detail: you mentioned the type plate quote "4min./6" This means that the machine can be used for 4 minutes at nominal load (power intake of 1250 Watts) and has to cool down for 6 minutes before it can be used for another 4 minutes of nominal workload.

The mentioning of such a specification is quite common on German (and many other European) electric motors and machines. It is useful information, because explaining the circumstances under which the ratings should be understood, also comprises good advice on proper use and avoiding damage. When taking notice of the advice, you will never overload the machine to the extent that it will overheat and burn out.

"Continuous duty" means, that a machine can be used continuously (= 24 on 7) with a workload that requires the specified power intake. German for Continuous Duty is "Dauerbetrieb", shorted to "DB". So if a machine plate reads "500 W DB", the motor can be loaded up to 500 Watts intake for long periods of time. AEG machines between 1930 and 1950 were even honest enough to mention the net motor output in Watts, and to mention the intake in Amps seperately. So a beefy AEG drill reading "375 W DB" seemed puny for its size, but in fact the motor was capable of 1/2 hp continuously. Another plate quote reading "3.3 A" told you that the motor took approx 680 Watts on 220 volts in order to deliver that 1/2 hp. AEG continued to supply such honest information up to the early 80's, but used only the input on the type plate and the output in the manual for the few readers that were interested. In most cases AEG stayed true to continuous rating specs ion many power tools, with the DB changed into the new code "S1". On the SB2E-600 drill, for instance, you could see "600W S1", meaning that the motor could run under load continuously with an intake of 600 Watts. The manual told you that the output at the front spindle was then 300 Watts, meaning a machine efficiency of 50%. Most other tool brands didn't even tell if their specified wattage was uner S1 conditions; there even was a growing trend to use ever more exaggerated specs which could only be sustained for minutes or seconds. Those high Wattage counts looked good in ads and brochures and made AEG look bad, so eventually they too thought "what the heck" and only explained their specs in the manuals and no longer on the type plates.

Since we're on this topic anyway, i will explain the other S-types ("Schaltbetriebe" or "switching modes"):

S1: continuous duty

S2: limited time duty, followed by a specified amount of time, e.g. "S2 30 min." The tool can be used for 30 minutes and has to cool down to the surrounding temperature level before it is fit to be used for another 30 minutes.

S3: full load duty, followed by a cooling down period at a powerless stand-still. This is the type of switching mode that is specified on your machine. As a rule, a 10 minute base is used; so 6 minutes cooling down at power-down for every 4 minutes of full load action. Full load action in German is "Aussetzbetrieb", shorted to AB, and "switch-on time" is "Einschaltdauer", shorted to ED. So "4 min.on/6 min.off" could also be written as "AB 40% ED" (the full load time equals 40% switch-on time, followed by 60% switch-off time, which speaks for itself and needn't be mentioned. You also know how many minutes that 40% must be when you know the 10 minute rule). AB/ED specs are from the same generation as "DB", used before the S-specs became the new standard.

S4: like S3, but with winding heating during accelerations taken into account. S4 is used for machines that have to start and stop many times per minute or hour, because starting current tends to be much higher than nominal running currents. With S4, it is customary to mention the amount of start-up cycles in a 10 minute or 60 minute period as well.

S6: continuous running with idle periods and full load periods. Before the S-notation, this switch mode was abreviated with "DKB" "Dauerbetrieb mit Kurzzeitbelastung" or "continuous load with load intervals"). S6 is often used for stationary machines (like thicknessers, CNC routers, production line roller lanes, conveyor belts and escalators).

S5, 7, 8 and 9 apply to special circumstances like acceleration with heavy masses, frequent stalling torques, electric braking, multispeeds, etc. They are hardly ever used on power tools and rather apply to special industrial drives.

I've added some example pic. When you look very closely at the blue AEG drill, you can see S1 on the right of the black adhesive type plate (i couldn'n find a good S1 close-up pic). The green AEG is a vintage example of true specified output Watts, the Festo belt sander shows the AB/ED code.

have fun reading German machine type plates!

gerhard