Thread: Issues with Triton TRA-001

Originally Posted by yoboseyo

I'm experiencing a couple of issues with the TRA-001

• When plunging, if you push hard, the depth stop can get pushed in past the stop. Then I have to manually pull the depth stop back down.
• When routing (pushing into a piece, away from myself) the bit comes out. The depth of the cut gets deeper with the cut.

How old is your machine? Mine is over 15YO and I've never had these issues; although in fairness 99% of the time it is upside down in a table so I'm not using it the same as you.

WRT to the bit pulling out of the collet that is worrying. There are two types; the original collets were single piece machined fairly cheaply made. The later models use a two piece design with a loose collet held inside the nut and free to rotate. If you have the older style you can upgrade it to the newer type by swapping the collet holder on the end of the shaft. Regardless of type, your issue may be caused by a couple of things:

12mm router bit shank and not 1/2". In Aus we pretty much only use 1/4" and 1/2" shanked bits with the odd 3/8" thrown in for good measure. However 6mm, 8mm , 10mm and 12mm are (or have been) available in other countries. Elu/DeWalt used to sell every collet size imaginable for the MOF177/EK625 routers. Check your shaft size is 12.7mm.

Poorly machined/corroded shank. Are you using a poor quality Chinese or Indian made bit? Trend, CMT, Freud, Carbitool, Dimar, Diablo, Linbide are all trusted brands. If the shanks are pitted TOSS THEM. Mild surface corrosion that can be removed with wire wool is ok. Always fit them dry; no lubricant.

Corroded or galled collet. Check the mating surfaces in the collet and the holder by colouring one of them in black Texta and then fitting a bit. When you remove them afterwards if there is a bit of crud or galling this should show as a clear streak through the ink. If there is definite galling then you will need to replace the collet and holder unless you are very, VERY experienced in scraping. This is NOT something you should consider researching and "having a go".

I am assuming you are using 1/2" shanks; if the bits are actually 1/4" and you are using a collet reducer then replace the reducer with a good quality one with alternate slots; not a POS cylinder type with one slot running top to bottom along one edge.

Good:
good.jpg

Rubbish:
Bad.jpg

Good advice there from Chief. Not sure if I understand what you mean in relation to the depth stop. Are you able to attach a photo or 2 so we can see what you are referring to?

I'll try to elaborate with pictures. Firstly, the router bit and collet:

The router collet in question is the 1/2" one that came with the router. I tried to take it apart but I can't. Is this what the "single-piece collet" means? As in the collet and collet holder don't come apart? I included the 3/8" collet that also came with the router, in the shot.

The bit is 1/2" (12.7mm) not 12mm

The bit is Arden. Chinese, but decent from the research I've done. I think the bit slipping is less to do with the quality of the bit, though.

I read that you're not supposed to push the bit all the way to the end. Is that what's causing the issue? The bit is too long for plunging so I'm trying to push it in as much as possible.

Then there's the issue of plunging past the depth adjuster. Here, I've shown where the plunge rod is at the top of the depth adjuster, when it hits the bottom of the depth adjuster, and how it gets pushed up if I keep plunging further than that. That's with the knob tightened
20200418_130203.jpg20200418_130240.jpg20200418_130301.jpg

I don't own a Triton router, but as I understand it the recess for the bit in the router shaft is quite short, possibly as little as 30mm. So bottoming the bit may well be the problem leading to the slipping of the bit in the collet.

Those are the newer better type of collets and should work well. The router bit should be in as far as it will go and bottoms out then just pull it out about 1mm so there is some clearance at the end and then tighten the nut quite firmly. I occasionally put a bit of graphite powder on the thread the nut screws on to to lubricate it a bit which helps with tightening.
What depth of cut are you taking with each pass? As that is an upcut bit it will be trying to pull itself down into the cut especially if you are taking deep cuts. Judging by the burnt pith around the top of the flutes you are plunging quite deep or is that from previous use? Each pass should only be about half the bit diameter in depth so only about 1/4" deep in this case.
In regard to the depth stop, are you saying that the chrome rod is slipping upward when you put pressure down on the depth stop? If so, how much pressure are you putting on it as it is only meant to be used to locate how far you are plunging down and there shouldn't be any excessive force applied.
Just another thought, when you say your cut gets deeper as you go, do you lock the locking lever after you set your depth or are you just relying on the depth stop to maintain your depth?

Originally Posted by Treecycle

What depth of cut are you taking with each pass?

I'm taking 15mm a pass, but I'm using the lowest speed setting, as I thought that's what the speed settings are for. I did notice it was struggling, though which was surprising.

As that is an upcut bit it will be trying to pull itself down into the cut especially if you are taking deep cuts.

I intentionally chose this bit as I'm cutting mortises and the upspiral should cut cleaner and remove waste. Is it the wrong bit to use?

In regard to the depth stop, are you saying that the chrome rod is slipping upward when you put pressure down on the depth stop? If so, how much pressure are you putting on it as it is only meant to be used to locate how far you are plunging down and there shouldn't be any excessive force applied.

I'm trying, but sometimes it takes a bit of force just to get it to plunge.

Just another thought, when you say your cut gets deeper as you go, do you lock the locking lever after you set your depth or are you just relying on the depth stop to maintain your depth?

The cut getting deeper is because it's slipping from the collet, not the depth stop giving in. I've done both, but I eventually determined that the best method is to take plunge cuts on either end and then lock in and push through.

Originally Posted by yoboseyo

The cut getting deeper is because it's slipping from the collet, not the depth stop giving in. I've done both, but I eventually determined that the best method is to take plunge cuts on either end and then lock in and push through.

I've had a similar experience but with a different type of bit. I was getting a CMT rebate bit to pull itself out of the chuck mounted in a table. I could not get it stay as it was set unless I took very shallow passes.

The CMT rebate bit's blades are angled. I swapped for a large straight bit and the problem did not re-occur. I've been a bit sceptical of the Triton collet chuck since then.

Originally Posted by yoboseyo

I'm taking 15mm a pass, but I'm using the lowest speed setting, as I thought that's what the speed settings are for. I did notice it was struggling, though which was surprising.
I would be running it at close to top speed. Doing a deep cut at slow speed would be pulling down on the bit which may be causing it to move and would also load up the router. Tritons are fairly sensitive to overloading and can lead to failure.


I intentionally chose this bit as I'm cutting mortises and the upspiral should cut cleaner and remove waste. Is it the wrong bit to use?
Perfect for this task. I only mentioned the spiral because of the pulling down action.


I'm trying, but sometimes it takes a bit of force just to get it to plunge.
Have you tried taking the plunge spring out and see how freely the unit will plunge without the spring pressure? It should slide very easily when the rack & pinion is disengaged and if it doesn't you may need to investigate further as to why it doesn't.

The cut getting deeper is because it's slipping from the collet, not the depth stop giving in. I've done both, but I eventually determined that the best method is to take plunge cuts on either end and then lock in and push through.

See above suggestions and this router bit speed recommendation

As Treecycle says you have the later, better two pice collet assembly. The other on BTW is 1/4”, not 3/8”!

Yes bottoming out the router bit is a bad idea and can be the root cause of your problem. Some people pop a small o-ring inside the collet so that the bit can be pushed all the way in by hand and the rubber will compress when the nut is tightened.

The variable speed settings of the router are only really needed for larger diameter bits or where you are experiencing burning when cutting. A ballpark figure is 24000rpm for all carbide bits up to around an inch in diameter, any bigger than that and you need to slow the machine down. Even at the TRA’s max speed of 21000rpm your 12mm dia bit is running slower than it would ideally like to be run at. As you are running it at the lowest speed of 8000rpm it is substantially below it’s ideal cutting speed and if you are feeding it into the work too quickly then it could be trying to take way too big a bite. Ballpark max depth of cut per pass is usually equal to the diameter of the bit so if you are taking 15mm deep cuts with a 12mm dia bit running at about a quarter of it’s designed cutting speed I would say the poor thing is suffering!

My recommendation is firstly to check the collet condition for wear/galling as I described in my original post. Collets can wear out and WILL if they regularly have bits slipping in them; they are softer than the router bit shank. If all is good then try again making sure the bit isn’t bottoming out. Reduce the depth of cut per pass and increase the rotational speed. If you draw a line around the shank in black texta you will be able to see if the bit starts to creep put of the collet under load.

Don’t neglect the PPE though; I would be wearing a faceshield rather than safety specs or goggles until I was confident that the bit wouldn’t be moving.

Pac mans Roubo style WIP- questions and progress

I had the same problem some years ago.
The advice in this current thread is the same and should provide the solution

Follow the advice already given. How long is the bit? The lack of burning on the lower end of the flutes indicates that it is cutting cleanly. Are you actually cutting deeper than the length of the flutes? As far as plunging at each end of the mortise goes your method is correct, but if you're cutting deeper then the length of the flutes you need to cut to, say, 75% of the flute length, including cleaning out the entire mortise, before you go any deeper. Full speed is the way to go. Deep mortising with these bits is a doddle if the method is correct.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Collets can wear out and WILL if they regularly have bits slipping in them; they are softer than the router bit shank.

Are you sure? I thought they were hardened and ground.

They are “hard” and top branded ones are a ground finish but slipping bits will still damage them. I’m pretty sure the upcut bit the OP is using is solid tungsten carbide, the collet is showing signs of slipping bits and you can see the burning on the shank. The shank itself isn’t damaged; or even scratched because it is harder than the collet. If they are never abused, always have top quality bits in them and never, ever slip then a collet can last as long as the router. Unfortunately it is rare for all those conditions to be met and slipping bits will cause a collet to flog out. The cheaper the machine the cheaper the collet was manufactured and the less damage it can sustain. If you need a spare collet for any decently branded common machine like a Makita 3612 or a Dewalt 625 the collets along wth bearings and brushes are usually stocked in Aus, anything else might need shipping from overseas. They’re available because they can be considered to be throw-away parts at the end if the day.

They tend to be fairly cheap too. I purchased an OEM Makita collet for a laminate trimmer last year, took about three days to get in and only cost about $21; this was from Trade Tools.