Thread: Are new jigsaws heaps better than old jigsaws?

Not sure, never had a 1960's JS but the pendulum action is a worthwhile innovation. I've had an AEG for about 12 years I think, it's got three pendulum settings. MDF does dull blades quicker than wood, 19mm MDF is no push-over for a Jigsaw and I don't think a pendulum action would help all that much. A bit of lubrication (soap) on the blade may help but it may drive you batty stopping and starting

in a word, yes.

if you want to see the best available jigsaw on the market, check out the festool carvex on youtube.

its an absolute bargain at $899.00!

justin

Originally Posted by John G

I've just been cutting out some shapes in 19mm mdf with my old 1960s jigsaw.

It was really hard going. I was using a fairly new 12tpi wood blade, but the cutting was really slow. I had to push really hard to move the blade through the mdf.

Was I just using the wrong blade? Or would a new jigsaw make a difference?

Would a newfangled jigsaw with a "pendulum" action (whatever that is) make a difference? YES
I assume new jigsaws are quieter and vibrate less, but do they cut better (ie faster)?YES

the other advantage of some of the newer jigsaws is the blade is more stable side to side and more rigid so you get a better cut

other things you can try include
using a blade optimised for MDF -- Bosch used to make one with tungsten carbide teeth (not sure if they still do)

buy quality blades -- but they tend to cost a bit cruise around the Bosch assessories web site http://www.bosch-pt.com.au/accboptocs2-au/ to see what blade options are out there

match the number of teeth and the tooth pattern (teeth cutting on the up or down stroke) to what you are cutting

Hi John and others,

not all modern jig saws are heaps better, but on average their capacity is larger, even without orbital blade movement. Vintage jig saws have 200 to 350 Watts motors, adequate for stroke lengths of 12 to 20 mms. Present day jig saw have double or triple the motor power and 20 to 30 mms stroke lengths. They can cope with twice the blade length and saw depth of yesteryear's machines. So your vintage machine cannot be blamed all that much. If its stroke length is less than the MDF's thickness (19 mms), some of the blade's teeth remain buried inside the cut and cannot get rid of their accumulated sawdust. This builds up and gets compressed in the spaces between the teeth, impairing the forward progress. Higher forward pressure is no remedy and only serves to build up friction heat. Besides, MDF creates a lot of fluff. It is no particularly hard or complicated material for any saw to master, but its tiny thin fibres are compressed fairly densely and, when loosened up, generate more dust than regular wood or chipboard would. So your vintage jig saw may just be moderate in speed because of its moderate power and stroke length but also because of the accumulated dust inside the cut. When the machine has a stroke length less than the material's thickness and lacks an orbital blade movement option, alternate between short bursts of sawing with mild forward pushing force and pulling back the machine some 10 millimetres or so to allow the dust to loosen and drop down from the cut. This is a coarse way to mimick what an orbital blade movement actually does, because that was developed to only let the blade bite into the material during the sawing upstroke and to retract it during the downstroke, reducing friction and wear.

The first jig saws already were very good. Alfred Kaufmann, an employee of the Swiss Scintilla firm, came up with the idea in 1946, after having studied his wife's sewing machine and replacing its needle for a thin scroll saw blade to make intricate shapes from wood. Scintilla (soon a Bosch partner, with Bosch owning the majority of its stock from 1954 on) produced electric stuff for combustion motors and transport (ignition magnetos, wiper motors, dynamos and lighting) and tools, so possessed the means to make a very complete machine out of Kaufmann's idea as early as 1947.
The "Lesto" ( Latin for "handy") brand name was thought up for the new tool line and the first Lesto jig saw was already fitted with a anti-vibration counterbalance mass moving in opposite direction of the blade rod assembly, needle and ball bearings and the famous T-bajonet blade fitting with the securing screw inside the rod, reachable from the top. The machine had a cylindrical motor housing (providing good handling) with a rocker switch at a convenient place right from the start. The Lesto 8550 (250 Watts) from 1951 became its successor and was a worldwide sales success. The mid 60's 8552 (280 Watts) was to become the forefather of all future Bosch-Scintilla blue jig saws. The present classic model GST85PE (reintroduced on request and demand that refused to die down) still bears much resemble to the earliest Scintilla models of half a century ago.

The quick wear of the blade rod bearing sleeves due to the user's forward pressure on the machine was soon recognised and a blade guide wheel close to the sole plate was added to alleviate the sleeves from the pushing forces. The 8554 (the 8552's improvement from a few years later) was already fitted with such a wheel. The presence of the counterbalance mass made the next usueful addition a simple and logical step. By mounting the guide wheel on a rocking cantilever construction and redesigning the rod sleeves to allow some forward-backward and rotational movement, it was possible to push the saw blade slightly forward by pushing the guide wheel's cantilever. The counterbalance mass was the perfect part for providing that push, since it moved down every time the saw blade went up. The pushing pin underneath the mass was made adjustable in such a way that it could push on several spots of the lever. When pushing close to the wheel array's hinge, the forward motion of the wheel was maximal. When the pushing pin was set further away from the hinge, the forward pushing of the wheel was more moderate and when turned away and not touching the lever, the pushing pin had no forward effect on the guide wheel (zero setting). Thus the adjustable orbital blade movement was born, as early as the mid 70's. So most useful improvements and perfections were already present in quality jig saws within the first decades after their invention. Shoddy quality only became widespread after the advent of DIY, with home users wanting the tools that the professionals had, but only at strict budget prices because of light and sporadic use. Such demand specs of course led to matching product qualities, deemed "adequate enough" to convince the perceptions of halfway informed laymen.
But hasn't it always been like that and it is much different now? Hardly, on average you get what you pay for.

The versatility of the jig saw has made it into a "maid-of-all-chores" for pro and home user alike. At home, the jig saw is the second most popular power tool after the drill and at sites or shops, jig saws have to stand up to nastier jobs than they were originally designed for. Intricate scroll work and processing plate materials were once the design envelope, but cut-off jobs in thicker planks and smaller beams are often thrown at jig saw as well. Even a bit of ripping is on the agenda when the circular saw was silently borrowed from the van by colleagues on a job someplace else. So jig saws were subject to the same power race as drills were from the 80's. From 250, 320 and 520 Watts, their motors have been souped up to 750-plus Watts, in order to cope with double the blade length and saw depth. And that's where additional support measures like sideways blade stabiliser blocks (with Festool's adjustable ceramic ones being the best option) come in, because the tiny rod drive mechanism and the blade dimensions are secretly not ideally suited for sawing depth like the ludacrous 120 mms in wood that some manufacturers claim. It is too easy for such narrow saw blades to stray away or to bend in such deep cuts; jig saws will never beat circular saws in that department. The best jig saw to prove my point is the Fein ASt649. Twice the size of a conventional jig saw, twice the weight (5.5 kgs) and a drive system with three times the bulk, yet Fein mentions 100 mms in wood and 25 mms in metal as realistic maximum capacites. Now there's a big jig saw, so 120 mms for a machine half the size is a bit rich. The small machine will cope without damage if it is subjected to such a task sporadically and with great care, whereas the Fein machine is laid out to deliver such capacity all day long, year after year. Again, you get what you pay for.

greetings

gerhard

...and some pics to illustrate.

Thanks Gerhard

Very interesting history lesson.

Aother informative and VERY useful contribution Gerhard!!

I think you should come to Australia and lecture to the crowds at Bunnings!!

Originally Posted by artme

Aother informative and VERY useful contribution Gerhard!!

I think you should come to Australia and lecture to the crowds at Bunnings!!

I think he should come to Australia and run Bunnings

Cheers

Ease of fellas,non stop demos all day they'd never sell anything!
Hope you have all bought shares ,they will go through the roof after whats happened in Qld.

Originally Posted by John Saxton

I think he should come to Australia and run Bunnings

Cheers

From what I've seen of the knowledge and expertise of Gerhard,
he's way too good for just one bunnings;
he could sub for nearly the whole mob.
Thank you Gerhard for sharing your knowledge and expertise.

Hahaha, thank you all very much! I read a lot about Bunnings in this forums, it seems to be subject to a lot of love/hate-relations. But i doubt if i would be an asset to them. I would bore custromers to death, sell little and give away too many freebies. I'm not much of a salesman, more of a hoarder, haha!

greetings all

gerhard

P.S., my special hopes and sympathy go out to the people around Brisbane. Terrible, i hope the water will be gone soon. Something like this often happened in Holland during the centuries, with much of the land being below sea level, but it can happen as far away as Prague (Czechia). This city suffered the same fate as Brisbane now does, with lots of dirty mud remaining on and in everything. But they did a beautiful job, after two years there were no traces of it left. Much of the houses over there have stucco walls, which all had to be redone. I wish everyone in Queensland and other flooded places strength and good health to overcome this tragedy soon.