Thread: Lithium Ion cordless drill: advice needed

I have a few of Bosch the Li tools, absolutely LOVE the screwdriver, and not only do they charge up super fast (my drill has 2 batteries but I only ever use 1) the best part of the Li is that they do not sloooooow dooooown, they go full bore until the battery is flat and we just place them back in the charger when we are not using them.
We have chucked most of the NiCad and Nimh tools out they are just a PITA.
Little Wolff

Originally Posted by Pete F

Well I'm not about to argue with you about this and I'm certainly sorry that you consider it "Jibberish". Just for interest however you may care to read this http://www.panasonic.ca/english/powertools/battery.asp or this http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki...e.aspx?id=2995 or this http://www.concreteconstruction.net/...ticleID=473726

Failing that, try a Google search on Watt-hrs as it relates to cordless batteries.

Evan just to throw a bit of a spanner in the works for you, given that you have basically narrowed it down to a choice of 2, but I recently picked up the new Makita 18V Li and so far it seems great. The impact driver is certainly impressive and it seems some others here have similar experiences. Good luck

Thanks guys for all your informative responses. Pete F I had a look at the websites you indicated and the info has been a real eye opener. From the "concrete" website I extracted the following section from page 3 in the expected life section which I found very interesting:


"As a general rule, Li-ion batteries have higher cycle lives than NiCad or NiMH, and higher-voltage platforms have a shorter life span than low-voltage platforms."

I am beginning to narrow down my selection to a L ion impact driver with drilling mode; ie. panasonic 14.4v 3.0 Ah EY7542LN2S model
makita 18v 3.0 Ah BTP140RFE
I read in one of the websites that an impact driver provides 4 times the torque from a similar voltage unit that is only a drill driver due to the internals.
It was very informative reading, and I recommend all others to have a look; it is a very good deciding factor for your next purchase.

Thanks again guys for all your informative input, Evan

Originally Posted by underused

The impacter can drill holes too
I have one, and use the quick change drill bits. Both drilling and driving/bolting is easy with the impacter
cheers!

Underused, when using the impact type unit for drilling do you use an aftermarket keyless chuck attached to the front or do you use quick change bits?

Thanks, Evan

Hi,
Ive only ever used the quick change bits with my impacter, and have had no problems at all.
Ive heard the keyless chucks wear out quickly, and just arent worth having...but Ive never used one
cheers!

Originally Posted by Pusser

My Panasonic Li 14.4V drill driver has brushless motors as does the impact driver.

What model number for the drill/driver?

My pleasure, glad you found it useful. I came across this company in Indonesia, not sure if anyone has any experience with them. I just bought this very same kit in the US for twice this, and in Oz it's worth twice again. Maybe something to explore?

http://www.aksarashop.com/index.php?...8c0e9b35099043

Originally Posted by Pete F

My pleasure, glad you found it useful. I came across this company in Indonesia, not sure if anyone has any experience with them. I just bought this very same kit in the US for twice this, and in Oz it's worth twice again. Maybe something to explore?

http://www.aksarashop.com/index.php?...8c0e9b35099043

Pete, I looked at their payment terms and conditions and it seems that if you are an overseas customer then they need an order of over 1500 USD. Have a look and see if that is the way you read it. They also do not want CC transactions. Their prices are brilliant, though all the stuff is 120V. I can't work out whether the chargers are universal or 120V but for the price you would buy a step down transformer. That is trusting that the stuff is not cheap ROC knock offs which they don't seem to be but stranger things have happened.


http://www.aksarashop.com/index.php?show_aux_page=2

Originally Posted by underused

Hi,
Ive only ever used the quick change bits with my impacter, and have had no problems at all.
Ive heard the keyless chucks wear out quickly, and just arent worth having...but Ive never used one
cheers!

Which would explain why the impacts are only drivers with no chuck.

Not nearly in the same league, but I also just upgraded to a Bosch green Li-Ion 18V. Battery in that is 1.3Mah which is probably a lot better than the 1.2Mah of the old NiCad (if the Mah are even that high) 12V - and the whole higher-voltage-means-less-current-for-the-same-work thing means that it will be more than adequate for the things I'll use it for.

However, should I flog this to death (and admittedly I haven't quite killed the old bosch green nicad) I don't think I'd walk past a Hitachi, Panasonic or Metabo. So far only had good experiences with these brands. Anyone got any comments on any of the Hitachi or Metabo's?

Originally Posted by Pete F

Just to clarify this, as it is possibly a little misunderstood. The battery stores a given amount of energy. If all things were equal, but two tools were 18V and 36V, the latter would draw roughly half the current for the same power output. There are certain inefficiencies (I2R losses) which would theoretically make a higher voltage tool more efficient, but in reality manufacturing differences could more than counter this.

In the above example, if the 36V tool used 1.5A/hr battery, the two would be very nearly the same. 1.3A/hr is close to 1.5A/hr; the two are roughly roughly equal.

While the energy stored in a battery is technically measured in joules, and it is the rate of use that is measured in Watts, for our purposes we can consider them the same. Hence if you want to compare the approximate capacity of different batteries multiply the battery's voltage by the Amp/hr rating. Again, this is not precisely correct, but we're in a workshop not a physics lab so it will give a pretty good guide.

Hope this helps.

Very correct.

Originally Posted by rileyp

pete f your jibbering physics.
I understand Ir2 losses and all that other jabber but in reality a 36 volt drill wont drill the hole or put the screw in twice as fast.And so a 36 volt drill with a 1.3 amp hour battery wont last anywhere near as long as a 3 amp hour 18 volt beast even if it is only using half the current which I serously doubt.

Unfortunately rileyp, your "serious doubts" are incorrect.

It may also be worth noting that with the improvement of magnet technology, brushless DC motors have very good torgue characteristics
compared to the old days.

As far as batteries are concerned, you'll be hard pressed to find a NiCd battery that has "memory" these days. NiMH batteries are good if you use them constantly. Li-ion batteries are still a new technology but are the best by far.
As a general rule, if you want to get the most out of your batteries, you can do the following;

1] never fully discharge them. Depth Of Discharge (DOD) reduces the life of almost any battery. A 50% maximum DOD is recommended but it will be difficult to tell when your portable drill battery is 50% discharged. Of course, this rule is negated by "labour cost vs time".

2] if you do not use your batteries (appliances) regularly & especially for long periods, fully charge them & store them in the refrigerator (not freezer) in an air tight container.

3] keep your batteries away from heat.

Originally Posted by Mini

What model number for the drill/driver?

EY7440

Originally Posted by Mini

Pete, I looked at their payment terms and conditions and it seems that if you are an overseas customer then they need an order of over 1500 USD. Have a look and see if that is the way you read it. They also do not want CC transactions. Their prices are brilliant, though all the stuff is 120V. I can't work out whether the chargers are universal or 120V but for the price you would buy a step down transformer. That is trusting that the stuff is not cheap ROC knock offs which they don't seem to be but stranger things have happened.


http://www.aksarashop.com/index.php?show_aux_page=2

Yeah looks like you're right. Not sure if I'd be willing to send $1.5K by bank transfer to some mob on the net offering prices that seem "too good to be true" However if I were in the market for more tools I'd flick them an email and confirm because they are very cheap.

Re the universal v fixed voltage charger. The Makita charger from the set I linked to is either not universal or is very cleverly disguised if it is; clearly stating 120V on the label. As per usual, as soon as I got it I pulled it apart to confirm . In the old days it was often very simple to tell and sometimes you simply changed windings, either inside or with a switch on the case. However modern equipment you generally have to sit down and draw the circuit to really be sure. It takes a long time to do, so I just played it safe and got a step down transformer.

Elk, yes two common things that seem to be missing these days. Thank goodness litigation takes care of the lack common sense , not sure what will be done about lack of common courtesy displayed by some.

Originally Posted by Pusser

EY7440

G'day Pusser,

How does this model compare to others of the same voltage and battery capacity? ie. is there a noticeable difference while using it given it's a brushless motor?

Thanks, Evan

Originally Posted by Evan Pavlidis

G'day Pusser,

How does this model compare to others of the same voltage and battery capacity? ie. is there a noticeable difference while using it given it's a brushless motor?

Thanks, Evan

I don't really know never having had or used another 14.4V. I was looking at the Makita 18V but the panasonic was more compact lighter and had better batteries. The batteries were more important than the motor - indifferent experience with a makita NiCd. I was influenced by a US woodworking test which gave panasonic lithium tools the award for endurance against Makita, Dewalt, Millwauki, and Bosch. I figured this made sense as Panasonic are well known as the best battery manufacturers and they should use good ones in their own tools. Torque was pretty good at 44.1 Nm. Allegedly the brushless motor has twice the life of a brushed motor. My next purchase of a drill will be the sister impact driver (150 Nm torque). The drills are very compact 191 mm for the drill, 158mm for the impact driver and light 1.6Kg for the drill and 1.45 kg for the impact driver. I don't think I will be posting a request for advice on which drill though - too many opinions!(including mine)