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8th September 2012, 11:56 AM #16
Why would I want Bosch DIY tools?
If the "other" green tools had illumination leds on their drills/drivers then maybe, but AFAIK only the latest released tool (CXS I think) has it. Nor have I ever understood why I have to buy a charger and two batteries with each tool. Finally the Ti15 is available as a skin, and wait for it...it's cheaper in Oz than somewhere else (but the set isn't )
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8th September 2012, 12:04 PM #17
Ratbag that is excellent information, thank you very much. Two thoughts come out of that:
1. Is it possible to get that switch reset (I'll be damned if it's not preset to expire after 2.5 years - built in obsolescence is a wonderful money spinner)
2. This info about Makita's old technology is even more grist to the mill for getting non-OEM batteries with Panasonic cells. Don't think Sanyo cells are available. I'm not in a position where I'm going to change 6 cordless tools over to another brand just for better battery life. If my livelihood depended on it then that would be entirely different.
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8th September 2012, 12:10 PM #18SENIOR MEMBER
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Unfortunately, in my experience Festool's battery tool range is a bit limited and "old school".
I've tried a couple of cordless Festools, and been fairly unimpressed with their charge life, battery life and slow speed. I don't think Festool are really cut out for high intensity high drain or commercial/industrial applications. I ended up giving one away to a niece, and the other resides in my shack for occasional use only.
I feel they're better suited to less demanding applications for well-heeled DIYers who like to show off.Sycophant to nobody!
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8th September 2012, 01:26 PM #19SENIOR MEMBER
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I'm not trying to criticise Makita's tech.
Makita are actually at the absolute leading edge of cordless tool design. It's what they do best. They sell millions of them. They are the true innovators, bravely developing & marketing new designs well before their competitors. First to market with Li-Ion, Brushless Motors, new types and styles of tools.
They absolutely dominate the market in construction and other professional applications. Most builders the world over use only Makita cordless and Hilti corded tools. As innovators, it's almost inevitable that an occasional mangy dog also escapes: I cite their first 3-speed drill, their "4 in 1" drill/rattler/screwdriver/hammer drill and their cordless grinder as unhappy examples. Makita basically only makes professional tools, unlike most competitors.
You can be damn sure M knows only too well the limitations of their current battery tech. and I feel sure is working damned hard with their cell suppliers to provide a more reliable platform.
I recently read an article on Makita's Telford works in the UK, about how they compete with other Makita global factories to contract for manufacturing new tool designs, and the amazing torture and destruction testing of components done on site. Each factory produces a particular range of tool, in a variety of locally nuanced variations (voltage, features etc.) for global export to all markets. Each factory therefore specialises in only a few individual tool designs and manufactures in huge volume for the whole world.
It's easy to produce a superior tool when you follow another's manufacturers' lead, learning from another's mistakes. For every cordless tool Festool sell, for example, Makita would be selling over 1000! Hitachi-Koki, for example, seems to excel in copying M's innovations, while introducing few if any of their own. With such economies of scale, it's not surprising Makita has such a dominant position.
As for your replacement batteries, Li-Ion chemistries differ. As such any aftermarket cells would require compatibility with both Makita's tool and charger interfaces. It's not just a matter of getting a re-pack with the cheapest, latest or best cells available. In regards to the "switch", good luck! It's actually an invisible transistor on the control circuit board IC that would require electronic switching!Sycophant to nobody!
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8th September 2012, 02:32 PM #20
Good stuff again Ratty. No, I didn't think you were criticising Makita at all - as you say they were first into Li-ion so obviously there have been advances since then. They also have a tremendous range of cordlees tools (the biggest?).
Recently I picked up a 10.8v Dewalt driver/drill pair for smaller jobs (of which I have many) and they're pretty good. Just not as robust as the bigger Makitas. I chose them over Makita 10.8v because the DW have a flat foot battery allowing the drill to stand up. This may have been a mistake, in retrospect. When theyy are standing up the Makitas just love to fall over (always onto the drill tip). The barrell shape of the M 10.8 would force me into laying the drill down, which I think is prolly a better idea, although i haven't knocked the DW over....yet (suspect they have a lower centre of gravity).
I will be wanting another pair of these so I'll have a close look at Metabo's offerings. I've handled the Makita 10.8 and they felt good and solid (nice bit of weight).
Another very interesting little jobbie is the Bosch 3.6v screwdriver (green or blue variety). This would be just the ticket for motoring along the travelling table on my drill press (have put an M6 nut on the X-axis winder).
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8th September 2012, 03:26 PM #21SENIOR MEMBER
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I've been looking @ those 10.8v tools for myself too. I'm a sparky, mostly commercial & industrial refits & renos. Users are full of praise re their virtues, but I've yet to see any electricians use them yet....
What I thought would be especially useful would be a small rattler (I'm just too ham-fisted with my 18v Bosch) which would be so much nicer up a ladder than the big ones, and those micro-recipro saws.
I notice that DeWalt, Hitachi & Metabo (at least with the 3.0 and 4.0 batteries) can all stand up on their battery. I hate laying tools down to be scatched up &/or filled up with dust. In fact I'm a bit obsessive about it. I even stand my big corded drills & SDS plus & Max hammers against a wall where possible.
I like Metabo's range best, esp. with their range of batteries and 3 year warranty. The range of tools is small, but useful: drill, rattler, recipro. & caulking gun. Even better is that their radio also charges, essential in my line of work. The recipro takes both standard blades & t-shank jigsaw blades too. This would make it much more versatile & useful in delicate work like cement board & the dreaded lath & plaster. Standard recipros are a bit of a butcher's tool.
What are the drills like? Could it drive, for example, a 25mm spade bit? Or for that matter would a 10.8v rattler be able to do it? I imagine augers, even a small 16mm one, would present too much of a torque load for such a small tool. Even 18v tools can struggle in aged hardwood. Obviously, holesaws would also present similar problems.
These 10.8v tools obviously have a reasonable degree of guts. Bosch now make a Hammer Drill, and Milwaukee an SDS in 10.8v!!
I use Bosch 18v tools because my most used tools: grinder, SDS and radio/charger are the best I have ever used. The grinder can be really loaded up when cutting, but only ever cuts out when it jams. The SDS is small enough to be used one handed, can be set down on the battery (as can the grinder), but gutsy enough to drill 20mm holes in seriously hard structural concrete. It does't chisel, but no 18v tool can anyway. I know. I've tried Hitachi, Makita & Milwaukee also. All really good powerful tools, especially the last 2, but useless at chiselling, and unsuitable for use up a ladder as they all need 2 hands to use safely and effectively. Just too heavy for the amount of "punch" available. The radio as previously mentioned also charges and it has a nice gutsy sound for both cricket commentary and a kick-#### bass for music!
As for the rest of my 18v Bosch tools, well they're actually no better or worse than anybody else's tool range. Their latest drill, while smaller and lighter than the older model, doesn't have as much speed or guts as the older Swiss made tool. I've reverted to the older tool. Milwaukee makes a better recipro, and Makita a better rattler. Their recipro goes from slow and steady to fast and furious in about a millimeter of trigger travel, limiting its usefulness in the delicate stuff.
The Bosch cordless jigsaw is a bit cheap and nasty especially compared to their world beating corded models. Metabo's latest bodygrip cordless is a lesson to all other manufacturers in having the same design, speed, power and capacity as their most powerful corded models (140mm capacity)! And the cordless circular saw, just like every other manufacturer's, is just a joke! I have a 36v saw also that has the absolute minimum power necessary in this type of tool. Anything less just doesn't work in my opinion.
Would I change brands? Couldn't afford to, even if I wanted to. Wouldn't anyway, as nobody makes a better cordless SDS than Bosch, a more useful grinder nor a better sounding radio! I can put up with the rest.Sycophant to nobody!
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8th September 2012, 06:02 PM #22Senior Member
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Thanks for the info, have bookmarked that for when mine die.
that said, i have had 3x 3.0ah 18v batteries now for 4 years and they have not skipped a beat. I have thrashed them with the likes of the rotary hammer drill, the grinder, etc.
Like you, i am too heavily invested in the 18v makita range to look elsewhere, the makita 18v tools themselves are great. the only letdown of the 10 or so skins i own would be the roatry hammer drill
GP
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21st September 2012, 01:26 PM #23Senior Member
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well, jinxed myself with that post. one of my 3.0ah just gave me the green/red flashing light on the charger.
damn it.
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21st September 2012, 01:48 PM #24
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21st September 2012, 02:32 PM #25
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21st September 2012, 02:46 PM #26
GCP, how old is that battery? My money is on 2 to 2.5 years. If you bought other batteries at the same time, and have cycled them all pretty similarly, you can probably expect the others to start dropping out as well, IME.
Disclaimer: No association to Murphy.
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21st September 2012, 02:58 PM #27
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21st September 2012, 05:08 PM #28Senior Member
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21st September 2012, 06:25 PM #29SENIOR MEMBER
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Hmmm. Just had my first Bosch battery die on me also yesterday.
Maybe you jinxed me as well!
It's one of 7 on constant daily rotation, so I'm not looking forward to the expense of them all dropping like flies.
The age? I don't really know, as they vary from about 18 months to 3 years or so. Luckily big B has new 4.0ah batteries on the market now (at least in Europe anyway).
Just like to add that I'm approaching the finish of an 2 year job now. I've been through 9000 Hilti plugs: yes, that's 9000 mounting holes in the hardest 70's vintage concrete and brick I've ever experienced, all with the little baby 18v Bosch SDS hammer, and it's going just as well as day one. There's also hundreds of through holes (some up to 20mm) and chases completed too, which is way over the drill's capacity. Most of the bigger holes (25-35mm) and obviously all the chases have been done by bigger drills: a GBH4 SDS+, GBH36 VF-Li, a 1500w DeWalt and a 1700w Kango 950S Max Hammer. Hate to think how much concrete dust I must have swallowed.
The GBH4 has begun to feel the strain of some seriously big holes and 500 odd meters of chasing, and so am I. It just doesn't feel as crisp and responsive as it was when new. Not surprising really.
But it's truly a remarkable job for such a small 18v SDS drill, and full credit to the Kraut engineers who designed and made such a little beauty. I've found quite a difference between the quality of their German & Swiss made tools and those out of Asia. My latest Bosch Cordless driver drill, Malaysian, just doesn't compare to my earlier and older Swiss made one.Sycophant to nobody!
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22nd September 2012, 03:09 PM #30Senior Member
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had another "Oh F&*%" moment today, this time with the 3 month old makita tracksaw. the blade jambed then wouldnt spin under power, I thought ###, and had a spat about it, turns out after investigation, it was the retaining nut was loose, very loose
come to think about it, i dont think it was ever checked or tightend.
GP
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