Modifiying a record 43 to cut tennons.

**JDarvall** · 24th June 2006, 05:49 AM

Hello again,

This threads really just a follow on from this one....
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=33429
.......which described modifying a record 43 as a dovetail plane. Since that thread seemed to work out ok, I thought I might describe another modification, thats worked out well.

This time I've knocked together a plane that cuts like a moving fillister(uno those old wooden planes), from a record 43. Similar concept. ie. skewed blade and nicker that cuts rebates with or accross grain well. The stanley 278 works similarily as well.

But, this ones better I think, due to its small size. I talked about my opinion on the importance of a small sized plane plenty in that other thread. Gives you better control, especially over short distances....which is what makes this ugly thing so special.

Because its so small you can actually cut tennons with it. Normally to cut these by hand you would need a saw to cut down end grain and accross grain, marking knife, chisels, shoulder plane etc.

What bothers me about doing them by hand is cutting down end grain. I don't know about you, but I find these sort of cuts too messy looking for my liking. End grain cuts are always harder to make.

Well, I've found you can avoid all that, by using this plane instead. Leaves a practically finished tennon, with crisp accurately cut shoulders.
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/10k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />

I'll give you a sequence of photos on how its cut.
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/2k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/1k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/4k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />

Now here's the impressive part I reakon. Control is so good, you can plane accross a short distance easily, to continue the cheek around....
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/5k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/6k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/7k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/8k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/9k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />

Leaving a crisp tennon. Ready to go.
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/14k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />

I'm obviously biased to hand tools, but honestly that is a very quick process. Often taking shavings cross grain is like spreading butter. They tend to come off easily, depending on wood type of course.

Granted its a small depth tennon, but I very much doubt a factory tool like a powered router could have cut that much quicker, and definetly not any cleaner. (sorry, can't help myself can I) So I think its a very handy plane.

He'res some pictures of the plane, that I'll show reluctantly. After seeing all these beautifully crafted planes up on the screen made by you lot, I find it hard to show this. So, please keep in mind, its really just an experiment. It went through a few facelifts as I changed my mind, got new ideas, had stuff ups etc. But the essentials are there to make it work well, which is whats most important.
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/12k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<div><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/15k.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />

Hope you like it. Love to see a better looking version of it one day on this forum.

**Pat** · 24th June 2006, 09:07 AM

Bloody hell Jake, you are a true Neanderthal! Who would have thought of this, but you? Whilst everyone else are making "normal" planes, you are pushing the envelope and bastardising planes to do specific jobs. I take my hat off to you Sir!

**Green Woodchips** · 24th June 2006, 09:39 AM

Jake -

That's very impressive and crisp.

Just wait for the phone call from Rob Lee telling you he's got a playroom full of old planes waiting for Jake-modifications as templates for new ideas! I think a plane based on this principle and manufactured out of ductile iron would look very much at home on the Veritas website.

You certainly come up with some great stuff.

Cheers,
GW

**JDarvall** · 24th June 2006, 11:54 AM

Ta fellas. Not that big of a deal !

but thanks, nice of you to say...

I think there's a Australian listed record 43 on ebay right now ! you gonna be fighting over it ?

arrrgh ! have a good weekend eh.

**Waldo** · 24th June 2006, 01:57 PM

G'day Jake,

Another top effort, take a well deserved bow my firend.

PM sent to you.

**Schtoo** · 24th June 2006, 03:37 PM

Nice tennon. Very nice tennon...

Yer a goshdarn freak Jake, you know that?

And I am still working out how to get that dovetail plane working properly. Not as easy as it looks really, especially if you want to use a square end blade.

But it will cut these tennons in the same plane I think. Wasn't intentional, but looks like it might pan out nicely. Would 60 degrees of skew be enough you think?

**routermaniac** · 24th June 2006, 04:00 PM

Awesome stuff mate. Loved this post and the previous one. How do you find the time to do all this with a job and kids??? I hardly find time to scratch my backside and I havent even got kids yet :eek: .

Well done. If you are ever in Melbourne we should catch-up and butcher some more planes

regards

Marios

**derekcohen** · 24th June 2006, 06:55 PM

Jake

That is just excellent work yet again!

I must go and try out my #46 in this fashion. See what happens. Hey, you have one too - do a comparison.

What width tenon can you manage with the fence you have built? Mmm, the ends look a bit tricky to plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

**scooter** · 25th June 2006, 06:06 PM

Usual quality Jake, thanks for the latest inspiring thread.

Cheers mate.................Sean

**JDarvall** · 25th June 2006, 08:57 PM

Thanks Waldo. Sorry I'm a bit behind.....I haven't read the pm's yet. I'll check it after this post.

Ta Schtoo, 60 degrees !

..yeh why not ? fiecer the angle the better. Generally that is

....Honestly, I don't know what the ideal angle is. I do know you can skew the blade much more than the 30 degree's or so I've put on this tennon plane I've made. The stanley 278 is much higher if I recall correctly......whats interesting with this tenon plane over the dovetail version is because its planing a square bottom it could take the shaving with the blade looking right(like in the dovetail plane) and it would probably leave just as clean a finish....but then you'd have to ensure the shavings don't run into the depth stop......

but again, the situation probably be different with a larger width blade. Might be too much force from a wide blade taking the whole plane off timber, if the blade was skewed right.....if you know what I mean.

So, what you doing with your plane ? Single skate ? Good for dovetail setup I think, but with a tennon plane I think you definetly need a full sole. The skewed blade since its cutting square will make it unstable. Be interesting to see what you come up with.

I'll try and make a post sometime in the next fortnight on how I cut the blade. Its easier than it looks, straight of the grinder.

Ta Marios, I usually do these threads about 2 in the morning when everyones asleep and I can't sleep.

Be nice to catch up with one day. I don't know how, since your in Melbourne, but one day for shore. We've been talking about moving to Melbourne for months now....

Hi Derek, I love to make that comparison, but I can't ! The 46 never arrived

..I was ripped off I think. I had a feeling it would happen too....Its only a suspicion, but since its similar in size to the 55 and 45 I'm guessing it'll be awkward to use over such a short distance...but (shrug) who knows...

With my ugly tennon plane I managed to get accross 8mm. Any smaller and I felt I was starting to loose control. But I put that down to the gaping mouth. ie. the timber was getting so thin, that when the plane was mid-pass on the wood NO part of the sole (neither front or back of blade) was supporting. Feels like it was going to crash dive. But that problem should be solved by closing up the mouth, and having a skewed bed so one doesn't need such a thick blade, or ultimately having a bevel down blade on a skewed bed.....also have a thin fence. With that, I reakon one could cut timber less than 8mm. maybe 5 mm ? But how low do you need to go anyway

Love to here how that 46 of yours goes across thin timber, when you get the chance.

Thanks Sean, I'm glad you like it.

**derekcohen** · 25th June 2006, 09:50 PM

Love to here how that 46 of yours goes across thin timber, when you get the chance.

Sorry to hear that the #46 didn't arrive. I have not (yet) experienced anything like that. Touch wood. That explains why you didn't try it out yourself, and why all the experiments with skew blades on the #043.

Well, you are just going to have to pack of the car with all the toys and take a short drive across the Nullabor so we can compare notes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

**MikeW** · 26th June 2006, 02:32 AM

Everytime I look at one of your threads, Jake, I am simply amazed at your ingenuity--and my lack thereof!

Some great stuff coming out of JakeLand...

I would agree, too, about the shortness. I have used a 78 for larger tenons before. But on the shorter ones, even this relatively simple and easy to control planes is tippy, mainly on the far side.

I do have a LN #140. But I bought it without a nicker. Maybe I'll send it back and have LN add one.

Take care, Mike

Take care, Mike

**JDarvall** · 26th June 2006, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Well, you are just going to have to pack of the car with all the toys and take a short drive across the Nullabor so we can compare notes.

Bugger that ! See enough sand when I go to the beach with the kids. The stuff gets everywhere........ might fly instead and brave the terrorists (sorry thats a bit morbid eh) .

Yeh, I was looking forward to that 46, as rusty as it was....looking at that photo everyday....thinking. Patient too I was. Waited 3 months without complaint, uno cause it in the US....finally found the guts to send them an email ....

' Hi, sorry to bother you, but if its not too much trouble,,,, where's my tool ? '

to which they replied...

' oh, I'm sorry, but that branch closed down, and since its been so long we can't refund your money. '

So, I started buying beatup record 43's

And speaking of yanks.

Mike. Thanks for the comments. These planes arn't that clever. Ugly looking things I'm a little embarrised showing off.

I do have a LN #140. But I bought it without a nicker. Maybe I'll send it back and have LN add one.
....is that the skewed bladed block plane with a little fence on it? .....Well, I'd say a plane like that be a good plane for tenons too. Small size, bevel up, close mouth....but I didn't know you could get nickers with them....I don't really know...I'm in unfamilar terrortory....might be an interesting comparison there. Its got a wider blade. Wonder how well it cut a deep tennon off a thin board.

**JDarvall** · 28th June 2006, 07:40 PM

Just wanted to mend something I said. Being saying it a while, so its a bit embarrising......When I said the stanley 278, I was thinking of the 289. Muddled that up. sorry.

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