Thread: what is the most overpriced tool?

As someone who makes a living using their tools my definition of expensive or overpriced is any tool that doesn't pay its way. My most expensive single purchase to date has been an edgebander @ $5k + freight. I've owned it for about a year now and it's already paid for itself in a year of part time work. Similarly my first (half-size) panel saw paid for itself in the year that I owned it, after which I sold it for about 80% of what I paid for it. The full size saw that replaced it paid for itself in about six months.

I bought an old monster spindle moulder a few years ago for $200. I still haven't used it, but it doesn't worry me, as I know it will probably pay for itself in a week or two when I do finally run it. I also own a DeWalt RAS that I bought more than fifteen years ago. It hasn't paid for itself and is unlikely to ever do so. It was definitely overpriced.

Now to the Festoo Domino that so many people like to hold up as an example of "overpriced".
Is it expensive? Undoubtably.
Does its price reflect its manufacturing cost? Probably not.
Does its price reflect its R & D costs? Probably, in part at least.
Is it overpriced? Depends on who you are and what you're doing. I had a play with one at a trade supplier and was quite impressed. Threw out my plan of getting a horizontal slot morticer (either free standing or attached to an over & under machine). One of these days I'll need one for a job and I'll buy it, knowing that it will pay for itself in a pretty short period of time.

Mick

Duh!
I thought I was starting a thread about things that people were selling that were way over the top for the price being payed.

Hence my example of the saw horse which we all could make for a couple of minutes with some scrap from the junk pile out the back.

Sorry to the Festool guys but as has been discussed quality comes at a price and maybe the value in that price is different depending on your pocket and need.

BUT what about last nights New Inventors??

The two guys invention was a syringe made out of a large bit of pipe to suck up and then plonk on wall board adhesiive and they thought it would sell for $300 !!!!!!!

Now isn't that overpriced?

http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1725484.htm

Hopefully the above link will get you to it.

Originally Posted by durwood

The two guys invention was a syringe made out of a large bit of pipe to suck up and then plonk on wall board adhesiive and they thought it would sell for $300 !!!!!!!

G'day,

Which was no different as anyone who's been fisihing, would've said, "that's a yabbie pump!"

I don't have the ability of SilentC or bitingmidge with words (or you Outback ) to properly express what is in my head BUT....
I suspect there is something very wrong here in Oz when quality gear is HEAPS more expensive here that it is in other parts of the world & we have to pay 6 times the price for bananas that are grown in Oz than the Kiwis do for bananas from the same supplier. :confused:
Are we a nation of suckers?
Are we thick?
Or do we just 'not give a damn'?

Is it a figment of my imagination?

Even at my meager hourly rate, that pays for over half of the cost of the machine

So, its a cheap tool, hey Steve, and hopefully a few more commissions will have it pay itself off 100%?
Thats great, but it won't get into my shed as $1200 too much for me to spend at this point. I need to ether sell stuff or make more $.

Overpriced -
For me, because I don't care about looks, any dovetail marker that costs more than $1. I can make one in 5 minutes from a Milo tin lid, using tools I have on hand. Thats just my way of looking at it tho.

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

I don't have the ability of SilentC or bitingmidge with words (or you Outback ) to properly express what is in my head BUT....
I suspect there is something very wrong here in Oz when quality gear is HEAPS more expensive here that it is in other parts of the world & we have to pay 6 times the price for bananas that are grown in Oz than the Kiwis do for bananas from the same supplier. :confused:
Are we a nation of suckers?
Are we thick?
Or do we just 'not give a damn'?

Is it a figment of my imagination?

Cliff, If you are talking about Europe (apart from bananas) I don't see too many things cheaper in Europe than here.

if you are talking about the USA it may be worth noting that an increasing proportion of people living in the USA get paid so little that they cannot afford the low prices of even the cheapest goods (which are virtually all imported from China) let alone the fancy stuff. Sure because of their huge population base there are millions of people in the US who can take advantage of these low prices but there are many more that cannot.

If this is the kind of society you would like us to become it may be worth living there for a while to see what it is really like - like watching street people fighting over the remains of food in dumpster outside a fast food place. I have burned into my brain the sight of 2 pairs of legs dangling out of this dumpster and knowing that inside these two guys are having a full on ding dong over half a burger and then watching as a bloody looking torso, face and arms emerge covered in tissues and paper plates only to realise the guy is soaked in tomato sauce. Funny as - but also deeply disturbing.

So we have to pay more 'just 'cos we can?' :confused:

Originally Posted by BobL

Cliff, If you are talking about Europe (apart from bananas) I don't see too many things cheaper in Europe than here.

if you are talking about the USA it may be worth noting that an increasing proportion of people living in the USA get paid so little that they cannot afford the low prices of even the cheapest goods (which are virtually all imported from China) let alone the fancy stuff. Sure because of their huge population base there are millions of people in the US who can take advantage of these low prices but there are many more that cannot.

If this is the kind of society you would like us to become it may be worth living there for a while to see what it is really like - like watching street people fighting over the remains of food in dumpster outside a fast food place. I have burned into my brain the sight of 2 pairs of legs dangling out of this dumpster and knowing that inside these two guys are having a full on ding dong over half a burger and then watching as a bloody looking torso, face and arms emerge covered in tissues and paper plates only to realise the guy is soaked in tomato sauce. Funny as - but also deeply disturbing.

Not sure what part of the US you're talking about but the average American I've met does better than the average aussie. Wages are lower there than a lot of places but so is the cost of living. Where as here the wages are low and the cost of living high and old johnny is trying hard to drive them down further.

Got news for ya son. The USA isn't the evil empire that you so like to believe it is. It has it's faults - just like Australia... Funny how that works.

Originally Posted by Toolin Around

Not sure what part of the US you're talking about but the average American I've met does better than the average aussie. Wages are lower there than a lot of places but so is the cost of living. Where as here the wages are low and the cost of living high and old johnny is trying hard to drive them down further.

Got news for ya son. The USA isn't the evil empire that you so like to believe it is. It has it's faults - just like Australia... Funny how that works.

Maybe not as bad as you say, but he has a point. The distribution of wealth there is skewed a lot further than ours. 95% of the wealth is owned by only 5-8% of the population and their social welfare system is nothing like ours (I am not saying that is a bad thing necessarily).

The average white collar worker has a slightly higher standard of living but, if they don't invest in their retirement, they wind up greeting people at WalMart until they're 70.

Overall I agree though, the good bits and bad bits tend to average out (except for one major point - health services - give me ours any day).

People in general are probably poor at judging value. Before you all jump up and down and protest violently and issue contracts on my life, I confess that I am amongst the most guilty of this. My perception of value centres around how much I get for my money. My mindset is material and technology, whereas it should be performance.

When we are capable of making a tool or device, we deride the cost of the commercial product, but we don't include our time in the costing. Factor in $50/hr for a self employed person and see how your pricing goes. Even your sawhorse now becomes $50, when you can buy at pair (probably inferior) at Bunnies for less than $40.

The XU1 brand is a good example of apparant value, but I recall a "road test" of 12V cordless drills in AWR which actually excluded that brand as it would not meet the criteria of countersinking a screw into 32mm chipboard. It was unable to insert completely even a single screw. So the $17 price tag is actually expensive. My belief is that they should pay you $17 to take it away!

And yet if you have a minimal budget and you only want to keep it in the kitchen to tighten the saucepan handles, it may be a better bet than a screwdriver set.

Why is any product overpriced? Well it all has to do with the laws of supply and demand and marketing in general. Does festool create a demand for it's product and is the demand justified? Perhaps they are a good tool. Perhaps even the best, but are they worth two or three times the price of another reptuable product?

In another of my lives I was involved in selling and I questioned why some things were apparantly more expensive. The analogy was drawn for theatre seats. The cheapest seats in the house are normally at the back and "up in the gods." If you want the front row of the stalls, be prepared to pay heaps; In fact, several times the cost of the cheap seats. They both do a similar job, but up in the gods you can't see the facial nuances, the sweat dripping from their brows and the heaving of their chest. The whole thing is more of an experience in the front row.

So it is with tools. If you want the best there is, be prepared to pay a premium. A hobbiest may not be able to justfy that commitment, but somebody in a trade situation probably can.

If a product is grossly overpriced don't buy it. The manufacture will either reduce the price or go bust.

I empathise with those of you who see the complexity in say an electric drill press for $50 and the simplicity maybe in a brace (as in brace and bit) for twice the price and shake their heads. ( Just by the way, I bought a brace and bit recently S/H for $65. It included 27 auger bits in a tool roll).

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

I don't have the ability of SilentC or bitingmidge with words (or you Outback ) to properly express what is in my head BUT....
I suspect there is something very wrong here in Oz when quality gear is HEAPS more expensive here that it is in other parts of the world & we have to pay 6 times the price for bananas that are grown in Oz than the Kiwis do for bananas from the same supplier. :confused:
Are we a nation of suckers?
Are we thick?
Or do we just 'not give a damn'?

Is it a figment of my imagination?

The days when Australia was cheap are gone. Alot of people from Europe come over here and think it is cheap but find the cost of living is comparative.

Groceries, white goods are very expensive here. Eating out and simple pleasures are cheaper, and you get more house for your money.

Originally Posted by havenoideaatall

The days when Australia was cheap are gone. ......

But why?

Why are we paying more here for the same thing that sells for less elsewhere.

I'll grant you that for the quality products like Sthil, Husky, Festool, Fein, Fiskers (sp) etc, they aren't made here & the Oz distributors are allowed to make a fair buck for setting up to import, store, distribute & support the product but fair is fair, it looks like they are providing for their super out of each sale too. :mad:

Now what about the bananas that are grown here?
Why are the Kiwis able to buy Oz bananas at 1/6th the price that we currently have to pay? :confused:

Maybe the banana growers are worried about their international customers going elsewhere, so they use us to subsidise their efforts to retain overseas market share.

So what we are in effect doing is being patriotic


As for overpriced tools, there is nothing like using a good tool properly. All pleasure, no frustration.
Cheap tool however is what's in your hand when your about to have a bad day

Cliff, of course they are providing for their super out of each sale, providing for mine too (I get paid by the government).

Total population levels, density, infrastructure costs and the tax base needed to fund it and climate all play a part if you really want to get into it, as well as wanting to pay our wage levels and run at a profit.

As for the bananas, don't know if they are OZ bananas in NZ, but if they are I'd expect that the distributors are keeping the price low in order to protect market share and to head off import rule challenges from other banana exporting countries. Protecting our banana farmers is important, for a whole host of reasons.

My opinion is that if I want to be happy paying third world prices, I've got to be happy getting third world services. I'd rather pay the higher price, cause it keeps Oz in the great shape it is.