Thread: Plunge Router advice on a New one and Repair of an old one.

The rack winder mechanism on the Tritons is for setting depth/height in a table rather than mechanical plunging when freehanding the unit, although it could be used in conjunction with the micro adjust to get a perfectly set cutter depth if you did not need to plunge for a freehand stopped cut. They have a mechanism to bypass the rack winder system for free plunging. I have never tried it but I suspect that trying to plunge into a stopped cut with the winder mechanism, it would take a couple of seconds to plunge and result in burnt edges of the cut and possibly an overheated bit.

Original series Tritons had a male collet screwing into a female collet holder with a course thread and some people had issues with them. The versions for the US market ended up with a male collet holder and female nut with a fine thread, which seems to be normal for US. This system has been pretty well foolproof and has been adopted for all current series Tritons.

With your Ryobi, I would not use it until you have identified the faulty component(s) and replaced them (thread could be damaged on collet holder on shaft or collet nut, not sure which is damaged, or whether a damaged nut has damaged the holder thread as well). Do not cut damaged thread of either item as a make do fix, as the whole set needs to be balanced very carefully as it spins at 20,000 RPM.

Thanks for the advice Malb,

I typically set the depth to the required depth on my current router using the depth stops then place it on the work piece over hand it so the bit is free to plunge down and lock it in then move into the work piece. CHeers for the insight into the Triton mechanism tho will look out for it on what ever unit I get in the end.

Alos on the Ryobi currently I can not use it so no risk of injury there tape and glue was just a joke. Currently both male and female threads have a little wear, while the female collet nut is replaceable (on order) the male collet holder is not as it is built into Rotor assembly. I wasn't even going to attempt any repairs on it my self but take it to a professional fastener company for there advice, I value my face and fingers to much to attempt a repair like that myself.

I'll keep looking into options, if anyone else has any advice please post away.

Thanks

I accept that the tape and glue was intended as a joke, but you also mentioned trimming the damaged section of thread off in the original post, hence the warning about not trimming the collet holder or nut because of the danger of throwing the system out of balance.

The Triton in free plunge mode works just like a normal plunge router, you set a depth stop to give the plunge range you require, release the plunge lock, plunge and reset the lock,complete the cut, release the lock again and allow the unit to elevate so the bit is out of the work, and reset the lock. In your original post you said "though I don't like the need to push the router to the required depth and locking it in". I interpreted that to mean that you didn't like manually plunging at the start of a stopped cut, but on reflection, it could also relate to setting cutting depth before making a cut. In the later case you could use the winder and microadjust on a Triton to achieve this, as suggested in my first response " although it could be used in conjunction with the micro adjust to get a perfectly set cutter depth if you did not need to plunge for a freehand stopped cut". Note that if you get a Triton and use the winder mech to set depth for fixed depth cuts, it is still recommended to use to plunge lock to fix the depth.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.

I'd suggest firstly getting the machine & collet to a machining shop that has appropriately sized taps & dies available to try resurrecting the existing threads. If you like your router then it makes sense to firstly attempt repair.

Failing that, then there's a whole swag of available routers out there at an equally dazzling range of prices. I'm personally rather biased as to my choice of routers: Elu/DeWalt or nothing for me (I've had 6). I tried a 2400w Triton once, but couldn't really get to terms with it's ergonomics (spoiled by the Elus I suppose), and sold it on.

However, without actually knowing your intended uses, cutter types and sizes, handheld/inverted in table/guide bush and jig useage, I couldn't really provide a meaningful recommendation.

I use a DW626 for inverted table moulding work with an eliminator chuck and Woodrat plunge bar. At 2300w it's the most comfortably understressed router I've used for heavy duty work. I also have another unmodified 626 for edge moulding with the fences. For jig work I generally use either a DW622 (1400w) for 1/2" shanks or DW621 (1100w) for 1/4" shanked bits, both with fine height adjusters.

I have a bit of a "system" where all 3 routers have completely interchangeable Collets & guide bushes, and a collection of bushes from 10.8mm up to 40mm. Additionally I use Elu accessory tables, right angle base extensions and hold downs.

For fine handwork I like to use my old Elu MOF96E (universally considered the best hand held router ever made) but at a mere 900w perhaps a little eclipsed in power (but unsurpassed in ergonomics) these days. This also has a "system" sharing fences, fittings (but not collets or guide bushes) with the mid-size DeWalts. It also is 100% compatible and interchangeable with Trend's enormous range of routing accessories, perhaps the largest available in the world!

So in terms of ergonomics, utility, power, versatility and interchangeability I consider the Elu/DeWalt/Trend system to be the absolute best available anywhere, and at any price. Millions of router users the world over also agree, which is why it's been the most popular routing system in the world for the past 30 odd years!

Thanks for the input guys really appreciate it, I visited a Fastener/Engineering mob today and they recommended what you have mentioned ratbag in that they will try rethreading it first using a rethreading kit, they advices against using a tap and die approach as it will most likely undercut the thread. I am waiting on a replacement nut and collet. They mentioned that once I have the new nut if it still feels like it isn't taking then they can machine off the last 2mm of damaged tread as the collet has another 7mm of insert room. I asked about the balance issue you mentioned Malb but they assured me that as it near the centre of the rotation and being machined off accurately it wouldn't affect the over all balance even at high speed tho they can check it if I want them to (how they would do this I'm not sure) but in the end if it comes down to that I might just let it go silently into the night.

Ratbag mostly use it for jig work cutting circles, flattening large pieced using a sled and large straight bit, standard edging and cut ins and also use it to do some mortising. To be honest I probable don't use it as much as I could however recently I've been spending more time in the shed building new jigs and the like.

Anyhow guys thanks for the input, I'll look into some of the stuff you use Ratbag and see where to from there, might have to just sneak through a fathers day pressy for myself.

I have the big Triton and have used them for a good while. They are ideal in a router table, which is where mine lives. I also have a big Makita for freehand use,the Rp2301fc model. I could not imagine that either of these would make you sad. If you intend any router table work then the Triton is ideal. For freehand work I could not split them. The Makita has heaps of power, no discernible vibration and is easy to use. The plunge action is silky smooth. It runs very quietly. But then so does the Triton. It is not as quiet as the Makita and the plunge is not so smooth, but it has a brilliant rack and pinion rise and fall and easier fine adjustment.

Originally Posted by Ratbag

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.

I'd suggest firstly getting the machine & collet to a machining shop that has appropriately sized taps & dies available to try resurrecting the existing threads. If you like your router then it makes sense to firstly attempt repair.

Failing that, then there's a whole swag of available routers out there at an equally dazzling range of prices. I'm personally rather biased as to my choice of routers: Elu/DeWalt or nothing for me (I've had 6). I tried a 2400w Triton once, but couldn't really get to terms with it's ergonomics (spoiled by the Elus I suppose), and sold it on.

However, without actually knowing your intended uses, cutter types and sizes, handheld/inverted in table/guide bush and jig useage, I couldn't really provide a meaningful recommendation.

I use a DW626 for inverted table moulding work with an eliminator chuck and Woodrat plunge bar. At 2300w it's the most comfortably understressed router I've used for heavy duty work. I also have another unmodified 626 for edge moulding with the fences. For jig work I generally use either a DW622 (1400w) for 1/2" shanks or DW621 (1100w) for 1/4" shanked bits, both with fine height adjusters.

I have a bit of a "system" where all 3 routers have completely interchangeable Collets & guide bushes, and a collection of bushes from 10.8mm up to 40mm. Additionally I use Elu accessory tables, right angle base extensions and hold downs.

For fine handwork I like to use my old Elu MOF96E (universally considered the best hand held router ever made) but at a mere 900w perhaps a little eclipsed in power (but unsurpassed in ergonomics) these days. This also has a "system" sharing fences, fittings (but not collets or guide bushes) with the mid-size DeWalts. It also is 100% compatible and interchangeable with Trend's enormous range of routing accessories, perhaps the largest available in the world!

So in terms of ergonomics, utility, power, versatility and interchangeability I consider the Elu/DeWalt/Trend system to be the absolute best available anywhere, and at any price. Millions of router users the world over also agree, which is why it's been the most popular routing system in the world for the past 30 odd years!

Ratbag, just for you ... my Elu 177e and Elu 97e ....



The 177e was purchased about 20 years ago and preferred to a large Festo. The 97e I picked off eBay (UK) and gladly paid the shipping costs to Oz. It is the finest handheld router around (albeit only 1/4").

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by skara

Thanks for the input guys really appreciate it, I visited a Fastener/Engineering mob today and they recommended what you have mentioned ratbag in that they will try rethreading it first using a rethreading kit, they advices against using a tap and die approach as it will most likely undercut the thread. I am waiting on a replacement nut and collet. They mentioned that once I have the new nut if it still feels like it isn't taking then they can machine off the last 2mm of damaged tread as the collet has another 7mm of insert room. I asked about the balance issue you mentioned Malb but they assured me that as it near the centre of the rotation and being machined off accurately it wouldn't affect the over all balance even at high speed tho they can check it if I want them to (how they would do this I'm not sure) but in the end if it comes down to that I might just let it go silently into the night.

Ratbag mostly use it for jig work cutting circles, flattening large pieced using a sled and large straight bit, standard edging and cut ins and also use it to do some mortising. To be honest I probable don't use it as much as I could however recently I've been spending more time in the shed building new jigs and the like.

Anyhow guys thanks for the input, I'll look into some of the stuff you use Ratbag and see where to from there, might have to just sneak through a fathers day pressy for myself.

Obviously trying to restore the threads is the cheapest alternative. Failing that, another more extreme method is to get the router going on the slowest speed and CAREFULLY apply a fine file to the damaged shaft end to slowly & steadily erode away the damaged portion. It's sort of a last resort, but shouldn't do any damage as the router is rotating in a "balanced" mode and the downdraught from the motor's cooling will blow away any resultant filings. This way you should be able to maintain balance and concentricity. Sort of like a high speed lathe!

Given that you are describing mostly "hand held" work, I think you'd be better off with a fairly big & powerful 1/2" plunge model. Disregarding my own personal bias, any of the big routers will fulfil your requirements. However, there's some I'd suggest you avoid: the big Triton, whilst an excellent machine, and unequalled in inverted table mode, just isn't quite right for hand held work in my opinion. To me it's just a bit too top heavy and unsteady on it's base for plunge work and edge moulding.

Forget the expensive ones too; the likes of Festo/ol and Mafell are just a bit too "Wierd Harold" in their ergonomics and stupidly expensive to offer anything other than self-gratification to the odd skite and sycophant who think it's a good thing to spend a grand on a fairly crude tool that doesn't even offer a standard fence. The big Makitas have a good rep. among tradesman, albeit with a fairly limited accessory range.

Other than that then there's really only the Elu clones. Elu got it right first time it seems: the pick of the litter in my opinion are DeWalt's 625 or Trend's T11, which are both basically the same 2000w tool with the latter having a few more advanced refinements in regard to access to Trend's enormous dedicated accessory range.

In fact, as the world's premier router design, the Elu MOF177(E), CMT, DeWalt 624 & 625 and Trend T10 & 11 are truly the tradesman's choice the world over. I doubt that there's ever been a commercial jig made by anybody the world over which hasn't been specifically designed for this one particular router design. Which is why, even after over 30 years it's still the world's favourite. A second hand original or clone is still a better router in my opinion than anybody elses' newest and latest. Bearings, brushes, collets and other spares are cheap and readily available. Try getting any appropriate spares for any other 30 year old router design! Plus they'll still be available in another 30 years I should imagine!

In fact, I personally think that for the serious user there really isn't any other sensible choice. A "no-brainer" as the Yanks will say.

The best prices 2nd hand seem to be from flea-bay UK.

Thanks everyone for the advice, After much running about I have found out from Ryobi that the company that made the nuts and collet went under in the GFC even after being told yep no problem we can get that for you anyhow I guess that means new router time

I'm hung on either the Bosch 1617EVS or the Triton TRA001 or both I know Ill use the Triton as I have limited space in my shed things like jointer or combo thickness's are a little out of the question so the heavy duty unit in conjunction with a good table or sled jigs will be good tho having revived my Ryobi (soon to be inoperable again) and using it on some finer plunge work I am finding it a bit unwieldy so maybe a smaller unit for detailed work would be good also.

You guys think the Bosch would be a good fit for this being a combo unit or do you think the little porter-cable or DeWalt 26204K would be better for smaller finer work?

Again thanks for all the advice guys been helpful.

Almost finished my first piece for a mate, very simple but its been good getting back into it again.