Thread: ripsawing with a chainsaw

Welcome to the debate about the established Alaskan mill model and the prototype vertical mill designed by yours truly . You will find them here under "homemade..." Enjoy!

For information about chain maintenance and sharpening go to the Oregon website and download the chain maintenance manual - Chapter 2 has good info.

For ripping wood the optimum cutter file angle is 10 degrees as opposed to 30 for cross cutting. As it is a PITA to convert a 30 degree cutter to 10 degree's so most people buy a specific ripping chain with the angle precut. You can get this chain from most chainsaw maintenance and repair places and it should cost no more than conventional chain.

Regarding chain saw mills, this site has mainly amateurs (I include myself in this category) compared to what else is available on the web.

The most comprehensive site is probably this one.
The gurus are people like railomatic, klickitatsacket, Aggiewoodbutchr and Woodshop. Stonykill is a small/short timber miller and makes custom furniture and is very knowledgeable about mills. WWF posters Ianab from NZ and Martrix also post there. You will see all manner of mills (amateur and pro) and the folks are very polite and helpful. The chainsaw specific forum is incredibly active and helpful, with around 22,000 threads it's hard to keep up .

Another useful but slower site is this one, although you have to register to see the photos which is a nuisance if you just want to browse. However, it's worth joing just to see the photos of the many wierd and wonderful mills that people have made.

Cheers

Now lets start by saying... chainsaws are the single most dangerous hand powertool known to man, if you are reading this and you aren't properly trained skilled stop right here and read no further I take no responsibility for your use of the following.

I have been known to rip with a chain saw and cane tell you if you are working free hand three things are important.
first and most important... the chain must be sharp.....there are all sorts of views on geometry and other stuff...... but regardless it must be sharp.
If you can't easily cut youreself in the teeth before you start you are wasting your time.
making sure the sharpening is consistent from tooth to tooth and on each side of the blade will improve how straight it goes.
Unless you have a LOT of money for a serious sharpening machine a fresh file with a guide will work as well and as fast as anything.
You will need to sharpen frequently even if it is two strokes per tooth I will sharpen eveytime I fill the tank, more often if the wood is abrasive.
If the saw was cuttinf nice & straight & started to go crooked its probaly because the blade is going blunt.
Don't expect to get too many sharpens out of a file 6 to 10 light 2 or 3 stroke sharpens on an 18" bar is about all you can expect. Expect to use up a file on one "bad" sharpen.


second having the piece to be cut held in a stable position, chocks, wedges, whatever it takes.
It isn't safe and there is no way you can cut a straight line if the job wont stay still.

Third, method.
You have to find out what works for you, BUT trying to rip straight thru in one swipe I've found not to be the best idea.


Personaly I lay the log down in a position where the cut will be vertical ( perpendiular to the ground. ( I work on a thick ply board to reduce the incidence of "gardening").
First I will mark a straight line down the log with the chain with the bar at a very low angle (motor sitting on the log or just off). pre marking with a crayon may help.
Lay the bar down the line of cut(one hopes the bar is straight)
I then deepen the mark pass after pass, its not too hard to keep the bar straight if you are drawing it down the log.

Once I have some depth6 to 8 inches I start plunging by putting the saw in the same atitude as I had when drawing down the log but lifting the back of the motor and using the teeth on the front of the saw. plunge.... draw the saw back... plunge draw the saw back and so forth till I get to the end of the log... when the motor will go over the end, take the machine over the end of the log and down.
If it is a largish or hardish log you will need several passes.
near the end a few passes at maximum deph should finish it off.
if not you will have to come in from the other side.

I've tried standing the log up and ripping down in one swipe.... difficult to keep straight.
I also find that the timber generaly cuts more freely cutting down the grain of the log.

If you are working free hand you wont get it realy decent or paralell particularly on larger logs.

I don't believe that fancy sharpening methods are going to make a great deal of difference. Any blade that is blunt will cut crooked.

Using some sort of frame or guide is an option but you will loose an minimum of 4 inches ( 100mm) off you bar length when it all said & done.

Expecting your thicknesser or jointer to sort out a hand slabed board is a bit of a big ask.
maybee you should think of a router bassed surfacing jig.

be carefull now.
A sucsesfull stock take afterwards is desirable.
Fingers 10
toes 10
arms 2
legs 2
head still attached.
no uggly read stains


cheers

Gosh soundman, I was breaking out in a sweat just reading about your method (which I have used myself a few times) - all that lifting, pushing and plunging of the chainsaw - not to mention danger! Just about any kind of mill frame is a lot less work than this. A straight plank of wood, a couple of screws and the Stu/DJ/TTIT/Andy Mac/Martrix/Dean mills will do the job with about 1/4 the calories , and according to FrankandEarnest no calories at all with his .

Cheers

Stu/DJ/TTIT/Andy Mac/Martrix/Dean mills will do the job

Cheers[/quote]

what are these mills and were would i find info on them

G'day weisyboy

Have a look through this thread, just about all you need to know about these mills

What DJ said.

I did post some plans of my little one in that thread, but here are some better ones that I didn't put in there. You could easily modify it for a much longer length.

Anything over 500mm though I would be drilling through the chainsaw bar and bolting the mill to it. Disastrous for the chain if it vibrated loose and hit steel.

..

..

All that lifting..... ect.
Not all that much effort...... and definittely no pushing.
A large part of the time the weight of the saw is taken by the wood.
There is more than a little effort holding and drawing the saw, but certainly no he-man work required.
If you have to push and force the machine the blade isnt sharp.

As for safety, using the machine in the vertical mode as it was designed with nearly all the blade in the log......it would be hard to find a safer operation for a chain saw...... note..... at no time is the blade plunged in directly end on and at no time is the upper front quadrant of the bar tip used or contact.

Now... I absolutely intend to build myself some sort of milling frame.
But it will reduce my salbing capacity down to about 12" to 14" with an 18" bar.
With the method explained I can very easily cut a 24" log down the middle.
AND if the planets align, the log cooperates and I have my eye in within about 10mm of flat and true sometimes better.

There are a variety of dangers and problems with running a chainsaw on its side in a frame particularly single handed.
Those concerns don't put me off but they need to be considered.

cheers

Originally Posted by soundman

There are a variety of dangers and problems with running a chainsaw on its side in a frame particularly single handed.
Those concerns don't put me off but they need to be considered.

cheers

Gday Soundman, I have been wondering what these dangers are, and I like to know what possible accidents can happen so I can do my best to avoid them.

Could you elaborate?

Originally Posted by soundman

Now... I absolutely intend to build myself some sort of milling frame.
But it will reduce my salbing capacity down to about 12" to 14" with an 18" bar.
With the method explained I can very easily cut a 24" log down the middle.
AND if the planets align, the log cooperates and I have my eye in within about 10mm of flat and true sometimes better.

Soundman, have you seen the Granberg site, it shows a simple minimill and small log mill with no outboard interference/attachments. If you could arrange to mount the mill direct to the powerhead and not the blade and don't use an outboard support (I can do this with my mini-mill) you retain full blade cutting ability. If I wasn't so busy working on my new mill I'd be doing this one myself.

As for danger I have no illusions whatsoever about chainsaws. I have been around CSs for many years but recently I went off and did a chainsaw safety course anyway. I have/use full PPE including full wrap Labonville safety chaps and a very health respects and experience for what they can and can't do. Using a chainsaw is one of the most risk thing a suburbanite can do - I heard it has about the same level of risk as driving a car - and that's an indictment on car drivers as much as it is chainsaw operators.

Cheers

It is difficult to espress an opinion just looking at videos but here it is, just for the sake of discussion.

I do not see many dangers with the Alaskan design, except that the body of the operator seems to be too close for comfort. The weight of the machine sideways and whatever push is applied put a vertical stress on the heel of the saw that has to be properly considered in the design. If, because of a fault there and/or an unexpected obstacle (hidden bolt in the log etc) the chain were to break, the possibility of its end whipping the side of the operator should be considered.

The Granberg video illustrates a couple of weaknesses that make me much less comfortable with it. Notice the position of the saw when the cut is started. A mistake in engaging it at the top and the forward push would swing back the bar straight into a particularly vulnerable part of the body of the operator . The second is the point of the bar protruding under the log. Tripping or carelessness could result in chopped off toes.

I am not considering here the risk the protruding point could pose to others, which, as Bob pointed out, is a hazard in my design also (only for small logs, though; in the Granberg it is an unavoidable necessity), because it could be hoped that responsible people would not let anybody near anyway.

Originally Posted by soundman

As for safety, using the machine in the vertical mode as it was designed with nearly all the blade in the log......it would be hard to find a safer operation for a chain saw...... note..... at no time is the blade plunged in directly end on and at no time is the upper front quadrant of the bar tip used or contact.

Now... I absolutely intend to build myself some sort of milling frame.

Exactly what I thought!

Bob, how are you sharpening your chains? I have been tempted to try the Grandberg style on an older chain and see how it goes. It seems all the rage over at the Arborist forum. Presently I am using a skip chain at 15 degrees, but always looking for better and definitely quicker cutting.

Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

A mistake in engaging it at the top and the forward push would swing back the bar straight into a particularly vulnerable part of the body of the operator

I too was concerned about this and even added an anti-turn stop to my rig but what I found was that provided the chain is sharp, as soon as the saw grabs the log it pull itself towards and squares itself to the log. You have to push deliberately to turn the saw nose back to the operator. Being able to do this is actually useful because you then cut a smaller front of wood and place a smaller load on the saw motor.

Originally Posted by outback

Bob, how are you sharpening your chains? I have been tempted to try the Grandberg style on an older chain and see how it goes. It seems all the rage over at the Arborist forum. Presently I am using a skip chain at 15 degrees, but always looking for better and definitely quicker cutting.

I've only used standard 30 degree chain so far. I have bought some 10 degree rip chain (not skip) which I hope to use on my new rig.

Oh yeah - I found this picture showing an improvised Alasakan autofeed. Have a look at how consistently thin the thickness are of the boards he is cutting. They're on top on his quad bike. the rope goes from his crash bar to a pulley on a nearby building and is weighted down with a few bricks.



I have also seen other arrangements using a hand operated or 12V electric boat winch. The operator thus stands on the non-cut side of the wood - or not even near the saw at all.

Cheers