Thread: Best sliding compound mitre saw

Originally Posted by Mini

..It would be interesting to see what would have happened if both saws had hit the market at the same time.

I suspect the Bosch would win out because most blokes will go for value for money over quality (especially if the quality for the extra bucks is debatable).

The original question on this thread was: Is Kapex worth the money?

I personally don't think so, esp when a replacement blade and an additional clamp are so very expensive, but it has some terrific advantages which may cause the prospective buyer to go that way: small footprint on the bench, and excellent dust collection, a good brake on the blade when switching off.

Not sure how rugged it is. Now that is really where Makita have the big advantage, as proven time and time again on building sites and workshops

At the end of the day accuracy is what counts, and the Kapex with its twin lasers is the best you can get. They are superb and hug the saw kerf with awesome accuracy, and the slotted blade guard means you never lose sight of the beams, and the smart bevel is great when you like making stuff with odd angles (its brilliant when making chairs) Nothings perfect, but this is not far off it.

Oooops ... forgot about the lasers - they are truly excellent, except one of mine is faded badly, can barely see the cut line , despite all the cleaning and dusting etc

Originally Posted by JillB

Oooops ... forgot about the lasers - they are truly excellent, except one of mine is faded badly, can barely see the cut line , despite all the cleaning and dusting etc

The Kapex story is sounding less rosy.

Originally Posted by Mini

The Kapex story is sounding less rosy.

Only for those who want it that way

Originally Posted by woodbe

I think our mate Ratbag is having a lend of us. This is what he posted in this thread, right?:



Noticed that he was also making recommendations about aftermarket saw blades for the kapex a couple of months ago:



Not bad to be able to recommend blades for a saw that he stopped using 2 years ago because it was too dangerous to use...

Ratbag, you're a ratbag

woodbe.

That's a trifle unkind.

Having worked as a casual TA for the local Polytechnic (TAFE) a couple of years ago, I have been using (and servicing) their hardware. I've also held a part time job @ the same place, teaching basic construction skills to VET students and was previously a student of said institute myself.

The recommendation of Freud blades was based on the experience of servicing their 2 Kapex and 2 Makita SCMS, and my own usage of Freud blades on my Kapex and DW1251 Radial Arm Saw. I usually make a point of buying additional consumables for my equipment, as with inadvertent damage (nails, tooth loss, breakage etc.) an otherwise serviceable tool becomes instantly useless. Original replacement blades tend to be expensive, and quality alternatives can be found for more reasonable prices elsewhere. A well looked after original blade shows a well looked after machine come resale time, so an early replacement also makes economic sense. The Freud blades were good for about 2-3 sharpening, at -5degrees rake and the standard angle (15degrees)?

My former colleagues @ the City campus of the Skills Institute (the Tasmanian Polytechnic's sister institution), got an unbeatable deal on 9 or 10 Kapexes vacs, sanders, and accessories from a local supplier. These were to replace much older Radial Arm Saws which had then become, for either legal or insurance reasons (I'm unsure which) unusable.

Given the depredations of the Polytechnic's students, and the Skills Institute's apprentices, all their gear gets a pretty hard workout, although academic staff go to great lengths to instil safe work practises, and a modicum of sympathetic usage in their boisterous clientele.

Cords get cut, blades chipped, hand tools' blades blunted on vise jaws, and on the SCMS the blades are often jammed & stalled betwixt fence and workpiece. In other words, their gear gets an accelerated workout, and problems emerge faster than otherwise. The Skill's 7 remaining Kapex following the demerger?? with the Polytechnic all developed serious gearbox oil leakage, requiring decommissioning and repeated service calls. Needless to say, the staff at Skills are a trifle disappointed at their performance.

That isn't heresay.

The Makitas on site, have proven much more robust and able to withstand most of the workout imposed. Nevertheless, I've also had to decommission and arrange for repairs to the Polytechnic's Maks. on 2 occasions (damaged blade guard and bent depth of cut limit arm).

The fact that I'm reluctant to use what I consider to be any unsafe tool at either my home or workplace is salient to my recommendation to others.

The fact that a particular product can or cannot perform to expectations in any educational or industrial environment is germane to its likely performance in others.

I don't particularly appreciate being belittled in an attempt to diminish my argument. To do so humiliates both the recipient and the author. Normally I tend to ignore personal attacks, and resent having to justify my credentials to have an opinion that may or may not be contrary to another's.

As usual these threads develop into bunfights as soon as Festool cops any criticism at all. Why this occurs I don't know but I should be able to comment and in return expect a well considered answer, not so in the last comment to my post. It is a fact I do own Festool and do appreciate quality but no one can deny that the Kapex has a number of shortcomings and even design issues that need to be addressed. Unfortunately there are those that cannot accept this so I will leave this thread and not get involved in what looks like degenerating in the usual way when Festool is involved.

I've just shifted to a new (very old) house and will be doing lots so think it's time to get a good saw instead of borrowing a mates ls1212 every time I need one...

One of the problems I have is the incredible profit margin they are making on selling them in Australia ie the bosch GCM12GDL is $1040AUD here (ie Bosch Glide Compound Mitre saw #GCM12GDL) , and in the US it is about $300USD (ie Bosch 3912-46 12-Inch Compound Miter Saw)

Makes you wonder....

If anything the USA one should be more expensive, as their voltage is lower so the motor has to handle a higher current ie thicker (more expensive) wires..

Given the AUD parity with the USD it should be about $400 here ie $300 + gst ($30) + shipping (say $70)....

This seems to be a common problem with tools, I've been looking at nail guns and other things and it is common to have the same ones in the USA for 1/2 to 1/3 the price as here.

The can obviously get away with it with 240v stuff, as most people don't want to muck around ith transformers and shipping, but I don't know why anyone is buying air tools or battery stuff in aus (yes, I should start a new topic ). Another example is the Milwaukee M12 system (ie Milwaukee Tool Cordless Power Tools | Cordless LITHIUM-ION M12 12v Cordless Power Tools System | Red Lithium Cordless Power Tools) I'm going to order one here (the cheapest I can find) to get the 240v battery charger, then everything else will be mailed over!

Ian

Originally Posted by Mick72

Looking at the makita ls1016 or the kapex. Is the kapex worth the extra money?. What do other forum members think of these two saws or should I be looking at others? I will probably wait for the Sydney show before I buy.
Thanks

Let's stay on track.

The simple answer to the question is yes simply based on cutting accuracy.

But it seems the Bosch is a real option and worthy of consideration. It will be interesting see if the new Bosch becomes a new benchmark.

Kapex

Being lost in the heated debate, a newbie like me wont even dare to participate however as I read in the previous posts saying that the kapex has dual laser, I should point out that the new Bosch does come with dual laser as well. Although I don't know how they compaer to each other

Originally Posted by Ratbag

That's a trifle unkind.

Perhaps. Apologies for any offence. Thanks for explaining the incongruence between your posts in the two threads.

Not many people would spend kapex money on any machine and then park it in a corner without engaging in discussions with the manufacturer, that choice just makes an expensive machine outrageously costly for nil benefit.

Interested in why you didn't chase warranty on your issues with the kapex instead of just parking it after 2 weeks?

woodbe.

It was purchased as an "old stock/store demo" machine from a mate who has a tool repair and sales business. It hadn't actually been used, but was purchased for cash in an "under the counter" transaction. Hence no paper trail/warranty etc. The price was pretty good. $1200 +/-? Can't actually remember.

Therefore: no manufacturer's warranty, and the price was well below cost I'm sure. It just isn't prudent to alienate the seller by dumping repairs of a warranty nature on a mate who'd sold it to me at a loss anyway.

Plus he's been very generous along the way. Just about any other tool that I've purchased in the "normal way" from him has been repaired as a "warranty claim" @ no charge irrespective of age! Can't be done with Festool/Bosch/Metabo, however as they all require product registration.

Originally Posted by pkjames

Being lost in the heated debate, a newbie like me wont even dare to participate however as I read in the previous posts saying that the kapex has dual laser, I should point out that the new Bosch does come with dual laser as well. Although I don't know how they compaer to each other

Lasers are terrific in workshop situations. An alternative is the shadow line type arrangement used by a competitor: Milwaukee??

However, in brightly lit situations, such as in site work, they're all unusable in bright light. In these situations, a shadow line would be far superior.