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Thread: Best sliding compound mitre saw
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10th October 2011, 08:48 PM #61GOLD MEMBER
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It is accurate for the purpose, that is all that counts, others doing different work might not find it so, hard to believe but true. Believe me, they all deflect to some extent just some less than others and depending on how big the bloke is pushing it through the timber. If I finally lay my hard earned down to buy one and the dust chute breaks Festool will have a warranty claim on their hands. $1800 dollars and something breaks, I want it fixed. The only reason I have not bought a Kapex is so I could compare the Bosch against the Festool. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if both saws had hit the market at the same time.
CHRIS
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10th October 2011 08:48 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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11th October 2011, 03:34 PM #62
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11th October 2011, 05:23 PM #63GOLD MEMBER
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The original question on this thread was: Is Kapex worth the money?
I personally don't think so, esp when a replacement blade and an additional clamp are so very expensive, but it has some terrific advantages which may cause the prospective buyer to go that way: small footprint on the bench, and excellent dust collection, a good brake on the blade when switching off.
Not sure how rugged it is. Now that is really where Makita have the big advantage, as proven time and time again on building sites and workshopsregards,
Dengy
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11th October 2011, 05:53 PM #64.
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At the end of the day accuracy is what counts, and the Kapex with its twin lasers is the best you can get. They are superb and hug the saw kerf with awesome accuracy, and the slotted blade guard means you never lose sight of the beams, and the smart bevel is great when you like making stuff with odd angles (its brilliant when making chairs) Nothings perfect, but this is not far off it.
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11th October 2011, 06:02 PM #65GOLD MEMBER
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Oooops ... forgot about the lasers - they are truly excellent, except one of mine is faded badly, can barely see the cut line , despite all the cleaning and dusting etc
regards,
Dengy
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11th October 2011, 06:39 PM #66GOLD MEMBER
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11th October 2011, 07:17 PM #67.
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11th October 2011, 08:12 PM #68SENIOR MEMBER
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That's a trifle unkind.
Having worked as a casual TA for the local Polytechnic (TAFE) a couple of years ago, I have been using (and servicing) their hardware. I've also held a part time job @ the same place, teaching basic construction skills to VET students and was previously a student of said institute myself.
The recommendation of Freud blades was based on the experience of servicing their 2 Kapex and 2 Makita SCMS, and my own usage of Freud blades on my Kapex and DW1251 Radial Arm Saw. I usually make a point of buying additional consumables for my equipment, as with inadvertent damage (nails, tooth loss, breakage etc.) an otherwise serviceable tool becomes instantly useless. Original replacement blades tend to be expensive, and quality alternatives can be found for more reasonable prices elsewhere. A well looked after original blade shows a well looked after machine come resale time, so an early replacement also makes economic sense. The Freud blades were good for about 2-3 sharpening, at -5degrees rake and the standard angle (15degrees)?
My former colleagues @ the City campus of the Skills Institute (the Tasmanian Polytechnic's sister institution), got an unbeatable deal on 9 or 10 Kapexes vacs, sanders, and accessories from a local supplier. These were to replace much older Radial Arm Saws which had then become, for either legal or insurance reasons (I'm unsure which) unusable.
Given the depredations of the Polytechnic's students, and the Skills Institute's apprentices, all their gear gets a pretty hard workout, although academic staff go to great lengths to instil safe work practises, and a modicum of sympathetic usage in their boisterous clientele.
Cords get cut, blades chipped, hand tools' blades blunted on vise jaws, and on the SCMS the blades are often jammed & stalled betwixt fence and workpiece. In other words, their gear gets an accelerated workout, and problems emerge faster than otherwise. The Skill's 7 remaining Kapex following the demerger?? with the Polytechnic all developed serious gearbox oil leakage, requiring decommissioning and repeated service calls. Needless to say, the staff at Skills are a trifle disappointed at their performance.
That isn't heresay.
The Makitas on site, have proven much more robust and able to withstand most of the workout imposed. Nevertheless, I've also had to decommission and arrange for repairs to the Polytechnic's Maks. on 2 occasions (damaged blade guard and bent depth of cut limit arm).
The fact that I'm reluctant to use what I consider to be any unsafe tool at either my home or workplace is salient to my recommendation to others.
The fact that a particular product can or cannot perform to expectations in any educational or industrial environment is germane to its likely performance in others.
I don't particularly appreciate being belittled in an attempt to diminish my argument. To do so humiliates both the recipient and the author. Normally I tend to ignore personal attacks, and resent having to justify my credentials to have an opinion that may or may not be contrary to another's.Sycophant to nobody!
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11th October 2011, 09:10 PM #69GOLD MEMBER
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As usual these threads develop into bunfights as soon as Festool cops any criticism at all. Why this occurs I don't know but I should be able to comment and in return expect a well considered answer, not so in the last comment to my post. It is a fact I do own Festool and do appreciate quality but no one can deny that the Kapex has a number of shortcomings and even design issues that need to be addressed. Unfortunately there are those that cannot accept this so I will leave this thread and not get involved in what looks like degenerating in the usual way when Festool is involved.
CHRIS
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11th October 2011, 09:29 PM #70Novice
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I've just shifted to a new (very old) house and will be doing lots so think it's time to get a good saw instead of borrowing a mates ls1212 every time I need one...
One of the problems I have is the incredible profit margin they are making on selling them in Australia ie the bosch GCM12GDL is $1040AUD here (ie Bosch Glide Compound Mitre saw #GCM12GDL) , and in the US it is about $300USD (ie Bosch 3912-46 12-Inch Compound Miter Saw)
Makes you wonder....
If anything the USA one should be more expensive, as their voltage is lower so the motor has to handle a higher current ie thicker (more expensive) wires..
Given the AUD parity with the USD it should be about $400 here ie $300 + gst ($30) + shipping (say $70)....
This seems to be a common problem with tools, I've been looking at nail guns and other things and it is common to have the same ones in the USA for 1/2 to 1/3 the price as here.
The can obviously get away with it with 240v stuff, as most people don't want to muck around ith transformers and shipping, but I don't know why anyone is buying air tools or battery stuff in aus (yes, I should start a new topic ). Another example is the Milwaukee M12 system (ie Milwaukee Tool Cordless Power Tools | Cordless LITHIUM-ION M12 12v Cordless Power Tools System | Red Lithium Cordless Power Tools) I'm going to order one here (the cheapest I can find) to get the 240v battery charger, then everything else will be mailed over!
Ian
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11th October 2011, 09:45 PM #71
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11th October 2011, 09:56 PM #72Member
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Being lost in the heated debate, a newbie like me wont even dare to participate however as I read in the previous posts saying that the kapex has dual laser, I should point out that the new Bosch does come with dual laser as well. Although I don't know how they compaer to each other
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12th October 2011, 01:23 AM #73GOLD MEMBER
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Perhaps. Apologies for any offence. Thanks for explaining the incongruence between your posts in the two threads.
Not many people would spend kapex money on any machine and then park it in a corner without engaging in discussions with the manufacturer, that choice just makes an expensive machine outrageously costly for nil benefit.
Interested in why you didn't chase warranty on your issues with the kapex instead of just parking it after 2 weeks?
woodbe.
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12th October 2011, 06:57 PM #74SENIOR MEMBER
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It was purchased as an "old stock/store demo" machine from a mate who has a tool repair and sales business. It hadn't actually been used, but was purchased for cash in an "under the counter" transaction. Hence no paper trail/warranty etc. The price was pretty good. $1200 +/-? Can't actually remember.
Therefore: no manufacturer's warranty, and the price was well below cost I'm sure. It just isn't prudent to alienate the seller by dumping repairs of a warranty nature on a mate who'd sold it to me at a loss anyway.
Plus he's been very generous along the way. Just about any other tool that I've purchased in the "normal way" from him has been repaired as a "warranty claim" @ no charge irrespective of age! Can't be done with Festool/Bosch/Metabo, however as they all require product registration.Sycophant to nobody!
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12th October 2011, 07:00 PM #75SENIOR MEMBER
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Lasers are terrific in workshop situations. An alternative is the shadow line type arrangement used by a competitor: Milwaukee??
However, in brightly lit situations, such as in site work, they're all unusable in bright light. In these situations, a shadow line would be far superior.Sycophant to nobody!
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