Thread: Need tool recommendations for a new workshop

Originally Posted by damienhazo

Thanks a lot Groggy! Now you've got him started all over again....

Think nothing of it Damien, no, really

Originally Posted by damienhazo

I'll send you a two bits of wood joined with a No 2 lamello using an Elu DS 140. Not only will you see that the join is accurate, but also that the two pieces of wood are perfect 100 mm x 100 mm squares.

Yes please. I'd need the wood to be at least 2m x say, 400mm to really get the picture - walnut will be fine.

Originally Posted by damienhazo

These cuts will have been achieved with my SAWBENCH. A tool that comes in varying degress of quality and functionality, that will get the most use in any workshop and a machine - which anyone with a good one will tell you - should be a priority because anything less is a waste of your time!

I have a DW bikky jointer, it will do a lot of work before a dominatrix hits the shed, it hasn't paid for itself yet..

Originally Posted by damienhazo

The best loose tennon joiner in the world isn't going to help you much if the cuts along the pieces to be joined are crap!

Too true, but easy enough to fix with the help of LN, LV et al.

Originally Posted by damienhazo

I just hope that when I buy a Domino that I remain sane. Sell my bickie-joiner?!? You guys are worse than ex-smokers

So, you've subconsciously committed to getting one, now we are just talking time span?

Did I mention I'm an ex-smoker? That's how I'll fund a domino eventually - you could do the same .

Originally Posted by damienhazo

Not only will you see that the join is accurate, but also that the two pieces of wood are perfect 100 mm x 100 mm squares.

These cuts will have been achieved with my SAWBENCH. A tool that comes in varying degress of quality and functionality, that will get the most use in any workshop and a machine - which anyone with a good one will tell you - should be a priority because anything less is a waste of your time!

The best loose tennon joiner in the world isn't going to help you much if the cuts along the pieces to be joined are crap!

Believe it or not A 100MM X 100MM perfectly cut square can be achieved with a Triton, failing that a bandsaw, shooting board and plane I spent the first five years of my woodworking life with a Sheppach TKU and loved it. A great saw for the novice. And when i win lotto, im getting the Delta 36-790 thats my absoulute dream saw

Originally Posted by Lignum

The Dominatrix is getting to me. This morning i genuflected imeadiatly prior to using her for the first time. Think i might need help

My dear Lignum, it would seem that Herr festool and his minions have conducted some extensive research into the Domino - not only as a tool, but also, and rather significantly, into the effects that such a tool may have on a new owner, before arriving at their new product's name...:eek: :eek:

I'm starting to get some serious tool envy here. Again

Originally Posted by patr

Lignum said,
"The Dominatrix is getting to me. This morning i genuflected imeadiatly prior to using her for the first time. Think i might need help "

So the rumours racing around the Vatican are true. Pope Benedict is a part- time Festool representative and has brought the light that Damienhazo mentioned earlier to that sinner Lignum.

" Dominos Vobiscuitum, Ahem. "

Pope Benedict wrote in this months, " Gloria in Woodexchiselsis",

"In Nominus etc.....the task facing the restorers of St Castlemains was immense. Pews und crosses had been ruined by the after hours antic of the Sisters of Mercy. Action had to be taken und using the new Domino we fixed the lot. "

That sort of endorsement puts any past and future reviews of the Festool Domino into perspective and in part explains the above action of Brother Lignum.

Kind regards from sunny Wales

Pat
Archbishop of Cywdllgagglefihangle

Given the (awful ) Dog Latin, may one assume that your erstwhile companion was actually responsible for that post rather than your good self?

Steve

There's not much that gets by you mein old Cobber.

Regards
Simou

To all those who have helped me out so far.

Checked out the Triton I mentioned, it was a Saw Table and Stuart thankfully advised me against a purchase. So, the search for a Saw Table continues.

I picked up the GMC Thicknesser today. One of 4 left at Bunnings in Tuggeranong (Canberra)! I'll be playing with that tomorrow.

Back to the Saw Table, I've been looking at Triton stuff and it's certainly versatile and a great deal cheaper than a full on Saw Table. Given that I have an under employed 235mm Hitachi Circular Saw it seems like a good investment.

I think I'll be taking the advice of Stuart and Chrisp and stepping up from mainly hand tools to Triton and the upgrading the Triton to a large Saw Table when I outgrow it.

Progress so far:

- GMC Thicknesser - Acquired
- Triton WC 2000 - Now a certain purchase
- Next on the list is the Router Table from Profesional Woodworker Supplies (Thanks Grahame) is top of the list for a Router Table along with the Trton 2400W Router and the Router Raiser also from Profesional Woodworking Supplies. I'd be interested in any comments on that combination if anyone has used any of that gear.
- Next will be the Bandsaw or Drill Press still haven't worked out which one will be first.
- My new work bench is a work in Progress. I'll start work when I get the Triton WC 2000.

Anyway, once again thanks to all those that contributed.

I'll keep you posted.

regards

Manix

G'day Manix77,

That's why we're here to try and help out. When you're set up don't forget to post some shed of your setup, it's always interesteing to see how others have set up their sheds.

Manix

Out of interest, what is the cost of a Triton 2000 set up these day, and how does it compare to that of a decent but inexpensive saw table? If they are similar, do yourself a favour and go for a dedicated sawtable - I owned a 2000 about 15 years or so ago and it was a major frustration to keep in tune or, especially, to set up the fence. There are very good sawtables around for around $700 that will be an absolute pleasure by comparison.

Regarding the choice of bandsaw vs drill press - get the drill press. It will be used for precision drilling, morticing (with drill bits), buffing, sanding, etc. A bandsaw is an excellent purchase, but it can wait until later if you have a tablesaw (which is more versatile when starting out).

Don't sacrifice quality in your desire to get it all. You will only have to replace the cheap stuff later and, while you live with it, it may not perform adequetely any way.

Regards from Perth


Derek

Out of interest, what is the cost of a Triton 2000 set up these day, and how does it compare to that of a decent but inexpensive saw table? If they are similar, do yourself a favour and go for a dedicated sawtable

Derek, I haven't done a cost comparison yet but your advice sounds good. I think I'd only be heading down the Triton path if I can pick up a second hand WC 2000 for a good price.

When you're set up don't forget to post some shed of your setup, it's always interesteing to see how others have set up their sheds.

Waldo, I'll be taking pictures shortly. The Shed (my Garage) is a combination shed, storage and rubbish bin at present and I'm ashamed to take photos. The next month or so will see the new work bench built and the shed returned to it's rightful role!

Incidently, I tried out the GMC thicknesser yesterday. I don't know how I've lived without one of these! I have used a thicknesser before but I'd forgotten how much time they save when finishing timber. I think I've just saved myself 2 or 3 days of sanding!

Derek is quite right about the cost of a new Triton verses a dedicated table saw.

I came up through the Triton route about 10 years ago (the last of the Mk III), but I'd seriously consider a proper tablesaw if I was starting out again. At the time, the Triton seemed a good way to go, but there is always another attachment or accessory to buy for the Triton - and it all adds up fairly quickly. Also, the cost of a real tablesaw has come down dramatically in the past few years.

If you go Triton path, I'd recommend looking at the secondhand units. If you are considering a new triton, I'd do the sums carefully - it would probably be better to buy a real tablesaw.

It all comes down to your intended purpose, which must include storage etc. As TritonJapan (Steve) said very eloquently in another thread, it is a matter of getting the right tool for the job, sometimes this will be a dedicated cast iron TS, other times, a Triton.

For my purpose, I often take the Triton to the job, rather than the other way around. Sure, I'd love a TS - I want a Jet supersaw at some stage, but until then, I don't feel hindered by having a Triton workshop, and it will probably be many years before I can justify the upgrade.

As to "there's always another accessory / attachment to buy" - I'd say that is absolutely true of a table saw as well. There is always something more to add.

The basic Triton unit (WC2000) must have the height winder personally. After that, it is only your individual purposes that dictate if you need anything else. Extension table - great addition for large sheets, although I find I have taken to cutting the sheets down roughly with a circular saw before putting them on the workbench, simply because they are too heavy for me to handle safely on my own.

Planer attachment? Get the GMC thicknesser.

Bevel Ripping guide - a jig if you don't want to make your own.

Dust bag - plenty of people have made an alternate out of thin MDF.

Router mounting plate - for when the router table (of any brand) can't do what you want- bet plenty of dedicated TS users would find this beneficial if their TS could fit it. Gives similar capability to the Triton that a dado set gives to TS, but also allows shapes other than a square trench to be cut

Wheels? Hang on - that is only going to show off one of the excellent advantages of the Triton - excellent portability.

And one final point - it is a bit unfair to factor the cost of the saw into the equation - I seriously doubt if may shops who have a dedicated TS don't own a decent circular saw, here is the advantage for those just starting out - you either already have a circular saw and can use that in the table, or you are in the market for a decent saw anyway, so here you can use the same tool for 2 separate roles.

In the end, get whatever tool will do the job you require, for the money you can afford. If that is a Triton - fine, if that is a dedicated TS - lucky you.

it is a bit unfair to factor the cost of the saw into the equation

Actually Stuart, this is a very relevant issue.

Firstly, I think the Triton 2000 is a very clever and useful piece of equipment, but its needs best suit either the handiman with an interest in occasional woodworking, the woodworker with too little space for a dedicated tablesaw, or the worksite. I had a borrowed Mk 11 or 111 some 20 years ago when I was renovating a home. My shed was a porch. I bought a 2000 because I was used to using the workcentre (Oh some 15 years ago), and sold it within 3 months as it really was not up to it for me (I was then in a workshop/garage at home). My replacement tablesaw, a 12" 2HP Carbatec could be rolled into a corner of the garage, and the sliding table unbolted and stored without drama. In fact, it was the sliding table that really started to irritate me about the Triton. The Triton version has to be set up carefully each time one used the workcentre since it relies on the placement and height of its legs. The Carbatec is independent of these factors since it is attached to the frame of the tablesaw.

I believe that the strength of the 2000 lies on the worksite. The costs involved in using it for fine woodworking mount up quickly: saw height winder (as you pointed out), wheels, saw strap, bevel fence (since the blade is fixed in the vertical), dust extraction kit... are there others? - I lost interest years ago.

You say every workshop has a circular saw, and that the cost of this should not be added in. Well, news for you, I have a 7 1/2" 1 hp circular saw only. Do you consider that this is sufficient? When I had the WC2000 I used a De Walt 3 HP and 9 1/4" blade. This barely had enough blade depth. Basic tablesaws come with 10" blades, height and tilt adjustablity (not to mention a real fence!).

OK, this is not a knock-Triton post. As I said, it is horses for courses. All I am saying is that one should get a real tablesaw if one has the space (and mine can be rolled against the wall taking up not that much more space than a Triton).

Costs involved? Even if you could get a second hand WC2000 for $200-250, you are still up for a few hundred bucks in the accessories department, never mind a decent saw (even a GMC of 9 1/4" is about $200). By the time you add it all together you will have spent more than a decent cheap tablesaw (available for around $700).

Where can one save the pennies to afford a decent tablesaw? First off, only buy what one needs now - don't try and equip a whole workshop with cheapies. It works out expensive in the end. Buy one good item rather than two cheap items. First item of reference is the Router Table - Build one! Who buys one? This is the most simple construction and many have found that complex versions, particular the cast iron affairs, actually do not work as well. Ask Rocker.

Rant mode over.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Cool thread.

Don't forget the immediate target - your list of furniture. Assuming you want to buy RS timber you could build it all with TS/thicknesser/jointer (get one with long tables) and the router & table for joints/biscuits. Get the Lee Valley bevel-up Jack with second 38 deg blade for planing your surfaces smooth (sandpaper - what's that?) and either waterstones or scary sharp for keeping it sharp. It's my 'go to' plane, and I have the Stanleys #4-#8, muji's etc.

I managed to build a dining table and pews without a bandsaw, but I love my 14" JET - tho the 18" is now on the wish list!

The rest of your gear will do the job - aquire what you need when you need it!

I'd hate to disagree Derek, and I'm not totally disagreeing either, but....

7 1/4' saw on the Triton - agree - not big enough. Cost of a GMC 9 1/4"- $89. Sure, you get what you pay for, but correct me if I'm wrong, this is a platinum saw so they back its use with a warranty for tradies.

Also setting up the extension table isn't that hard! (I do a lot of jobs on site, rather than just in the workshop, extension table included)

I'm still very dubious that you can get a good TS for $700, with all the features you mention (good fence, extension table etc). ("Good" being the focus here). If I was going that way - I'd be planning on spending quite a bit more to ensure I got it right. Case in point - I've tried a small bandsaw - ditched it (literally). I bought the equivalent of the $700 TS - a 14" Taiwanese job - hated it and took it straight back. Spent quite a bit more, and got something good, with a good name, and have not regretted the extra cost for a moment. I would apply the same lesson to a TS - which is why I'd be very sceptical about a TS that was only $700.

Finally, the last point is where I found the Triton system the most attractive. You can buy just what you need, and what you can afford, and add to the system as each expands. I certainly didn't go out and spend (whatever I have now spent) in one hit. I got a good quality saw, a few months later I got a table (WC2000). Bit later on I added a dust bucket (since replaced witha cyclone), then 6 months after that, the dust bag. In the meantime, I bought a good router (2400W triton) etc etc. So my cost was spread out over 3 or so years, adding what I needed when I did, and more importantly as my skills and finances allowed.

As it turned out - sure, the TS would have been a better financial option, but I didn't know how far I was going to take this pursuit, and at any stage (like many do), I could have stopped at a level I was comfortable with.

Like some (yourself included by the sounds), my skills and therefore needs have continued to expand, and are now reaching beyond the capabilities of the Triton table, but that is after I've built a very nice entertainment unit, kitchen bench, fancy doghouse, kids playhouse furniture etc etc, not one project hampered by the fact it was made on a Triton and not a more expensive, dedicated machine.

I'm certainly not knocking the TS argument, but like many, starting basic and seeing what develops is one of the real beauties of the Triton system. And if you get to a point where you need something more - they still fetch a good price on eBay!