Thread: Need tool recommendations for a new workshop

Stuart

I cannot find much support for your arguments in the context of the present thread. The original poster is looking for a tablesaw (or equivalent). He wants a finished product to be used now, not a kit to be built up as needed.

I'd be very sceptical about a TS that was only $700.

The following is available for $549:

http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/ind..._450_3080_3100

And for $799 you get this:

http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/ind..._450_3080_3110

No doubt, if he chose to go secondhand he could do even better.

Personally, in a workshop, I'd rather have the cheapie above than a WC2000. It does have a half-decent fence. Furthermore, I most certainly believe that the $799 tablesaw would leave the WC2000 for dead - I have seen this one first hand.

Again I will repeat, the WC2000 has its place, and where appropriate it is a good tool. I just do not see that this is going to make this buyer happy in even the short term. He really can do bette, and at much the same price.

Regards from Perth

Derek

When George came up with the idea, then the system the world was adifferent place "handyblokes" had a mitrebox, full range of handtools and a B&D drill, maybe an old sherline or wolf, even into the late 80's early 90s when I aquired my MkIII cabinetsaws were 3 phase and 3 fold more than we could even imagine. They weren't even on the radar, people made their own sawbenches from rhs & ply, the world has moved on, No contest, it's like comparing mecano sets with apples or a sega with an Xbox .

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Stuart

I cannot find much support for your arguments in the context of the present thread. The original poster is looking for a tablesaw (or equivalent). He wants a finished product to be used now, not a kit to be built up as needed.



The following is available for $549:

http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/ind..._450_3080_3100

And for $799 you get this:

http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/ind..._450_3080_3110

No doubt, if he chose to go secondhand he could do even better.

Personally, in a workshop, I'd rather have the cheapie above than a WC2000. It does have a half-decent fence. Furthermore, I most certainly believe that the $799 tablesaw would leave the WC2000 for dead - I have seen this one first hand.

Again I will repeat, the WC2000 has its place, and where appropriate it is a good tool. I just do not see that this is going to make this buyer happy in even the short term. He really can do bette, and at much the same price.

Regards from Perth

Derek

No problems Derek, I certainly respect you, and your opinion. Perhaps I don't know a good tablesaw when I see one, as I have seen these in Carbatec, and similar in Hare & Forbes, and walked straight past towards more advanced models. I'll have to look closer next time.

Originally Posted by Lignum

Give a Triton to any highly compitent woodworker and i bet he can make some serious furniture.

I made a whole houseful of furniture BEFORE i upgraded to the triton wc2000.

and ive no aspirations to upgrade to a tablesaw in the foreseeable future either as i like to keep my workshop mobile. you cant just throw a tablesaw into the back of the patrol and take it to where the work is but you can do that with a triton.

now before anyone takes me to task about the 200ltr cyclone and mobility, it is for thejointer and planer/thicknesser above all else and i can dress the timber at home and takeit intothe field withthe tritonusing the home vacuum cleaner system and sturdee cyclones

Originally Posted by stuart_lees

I have seen these in Carbatec, and similar in Hare & Forbes, and walked straight past towards more advanced models. I'll have to look closer next time.

And take note of all the plastic and thin aluminium, not to mention the poor quality threads on the rise and fall and tilt. Some even have plastic sheathing for the worm gearing:eek: They might look pretty, but are very inaccurate and difficult to finley tune. You made the right choice walking straight past. And its my opinion as someone who makes furniture for a living that a well tuned WC2000 would leave a $799 carbatec saw for dead

Hi Lignum

I really couldn't speak for the cheaper of the two tablesaws I mentioned - frankly it doesn't look that terribly good in the picture - but I have examined the $799 one, and it has a flat, well machined cast iron top, a good fence and, no doubt, the same 2 HP motor that powers my own TS. Really, a WC2000 cannot compete here: add-on rise and fall, thin sheet metal top, flimsy fence (one that has to be carefully set at each end each time it is used), settings that are frequently lost (hey - I know - I used one for about 3 years!). Did I mention that a WC2000 is noisy? Or, should I say that the noise from a large circular saw is several times that of a tablesaw motor. There is also the illusion that the WC2000 can do a lot of different tasks - and it indeed has this capability - but in a workshop the reality is that one dislikes having to reset an established setting because it is inconvenient. That is why Triton developed a separate router table. Then again, if someone lacks the space for several machines, then the Triton is a Godsend.

Again, this is not meant to be an anti-Triton post. It is light and manueverable and can go places where a heavy, dedicated tablesaw cannot go.

But to say that the 2HP Carbatec is outclassed by a Triton (and GMC saw?) is ludercrous.

I have not kept apace with the prices of a new Triton and its accessories. Can someone post them here. All this is really an academic exercise. Ultimately, the one who needs to be convinced is Manix. Still, there will be others out there in cyberspace who want to know...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Lignum

....... a well tuned WC2000 would leave a $799 carbatec saw for dead

with the "WELL TUNED" in capitals. Im convinced that the hours and hours i spent setting up my triton gear have been instrumental in my subsequent enjoyment of the toys/tools.

I built my first furniture with a skill saw (cutting dados with two guides either side of the saw) and some hand tools. Still using that bookcase after 20+years.

Upgrading to the Triton was an enormous improvment, and when I was working in my garage, the ability to take it down and stow it was fantastic. My output increased and the quality improved. Used it happily for about six years.

Now with a proper workshop with a proper TS, things are that much easier, and can do more with the TS that I used to do with some other tool. Again output has increased and quality has improved.

However, if you regularly tune the triton, you can get some quite good results, and the ability to break it down and stow it is extremely valuable when space is an issue. You just have to know what it can do well and what it can't. My biggest problem with the triton was I could never get a really clean shoulder on a tenon, so had to spend extra time and use other methods.

I would suggest matrix think about space, and if the space allows for a permanent fixture, get a proper TS. If not, get the triton.

Tex

I appreciate the advice received so far.

I do have a space issue but the Table Saw, Triton or otherwise will be permanently set up. One of the big issues I have at present is the time I spend setting up and packing up. A serious review of my workshop is planned with the aim of being able to walk in, work and walk out (after a bit of a clean up). I (like most home woodworkers I'm guessing) get a lot of my work done after work. If I spend 20 minutes setting up and another 20 packing up it eats into my work time. I also don't have a requirement to take my gear from site to site.

I do plan to investigate the cost v benifits of a dedicated Table Saw and a Triton. I'll be doing it from the perspective of an inexperienced amature so I'll post the results on a seperate thread.

Whilst on the subject I've posted a seperate thread asking about the utility of a Table Saw (Triton or otherwise). Being an inexperienced Table Saw user I'm interested in what people use their Table Saws for.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=33808

The other tools on the list still stand at:

Router Table - have my heart set on the Woodpecker Table with the big Triton Router and maybe a small Incra Fence.
BandSaw - 14" still looking at options
Drill Press - still looking at options

I think that will cover the majority of my requirements. I'll let you know how I go with the Table Saw/Triton comparison.

Manix

Hi

Originally Posted by Lignum

$700 TS are junk. Nothing more nothing less.

This is BS! Of course you can get a TS that IS good for $700!

Im with Stuart, the Triton is the best budget saw to start with

What a contradiction in terms!! Do you really expect to get improved results from a basic Triton system with a "portable" circular saw than a table saw in the $700 price bracket? You have got to be kidding me. While I appreciate the Triton is a good and useful tool and a useful base on which to expand, it's NOT in the same league as a dedicated TS (considering ONLY the TS aspect).

if funds are tight, then at least $1000 - $1200 would be the base to have any real upgrade benifit. Give a Triton to any highly compitent woodworker and i bet he can make some serious furniture.

Come on? Proper advice is being sought here. A highly competent woodworker can produce some serious furniture with hand tools. Such advice does not change the qualifications of a Triton TS. Advice like that applies just as well to the same woodworker using the $700 TS.

The $3000 mentioned in an earlier post is enough to purchase a good range of capable power tools. Sure, the more you spend on each tool will improve its ease of use or level of accuracy, but good things can be made from the cheaper tool range - generally without conceding too much in ease of use or accuracy.

I worked for years with only a RAS, 7.25" circular saw, router and a cheap jigsaw. I made lots of furniture and a second storey extension. All of those items turned out as excellent products.

I am amazed at the advice on buying jointers and thicknessers and BIG bandsaws and router tables as a "must". I have used, and continue to use my router by hand. This is not as easy as using a table for some items, but as with some other items a router table is NOT a priority. Sure I agree with these items but NOT in the order of priority given within this list. Many of these items are "nice to have items" the Festool Domino for example, as a priority purchase??? I don't think so! Sure this too is a nice tool - WAAAAYYY overpriced for what is is and what it does! You are talking about spending 40% of the total tool budget on this ONE item!! Other more useful tools can be purchased for less that can be used in place of a domino system. The Makita biscuit joiner is a great tool. Biscuit joins were all very acceptable in this group before the domino system "took over". Just because the domino system is good it does not diminish the capability of biscuit joins, they still work just as good as they used to.

There, I feel better now

Originally Posted by Lignum

And its my opinion as someone who makes furniture for a living that a well tuned WC2000 would leave a $799 carbatec saw for dead

Are you actually USING a Triton to make the furniture from which you make your living?

Originally Posted by MrFixIt

Are you actually USING a Triton to make the furniture from which you make your living?

I did for the first few years yes. Then moved up to the Sheppach TKU for a few (Great saw for starting out, highly recomended) then briefly :eek: the TS-250 from Timecon:eek: and what a peice of junk that was, it went back after two weeks and a Euro Jet was happily purchased.

Suppose im just lucky to have used saws from the Triton up to an Altendorf, so i feel as though i can give an opinion on most price brackets and the only one i would stay clear of is the 600 - 900 price range, Mutton dressed as lamb. Its like anything, unless you have tried stuff you cant knock it and the reasons for either recomending or dismissing it. Domino perfect example.

And what i mean about a highly compitent woodworker being able to make great furniture on a Triton is, so many knock the Triton, but for all its faults it is capable of doing things right when set up corectly. Its a very good unit to learn on. Master that and you are ready to go into the $1500+ price range and realy kick some a$$

What an interesting thread.

I still stand by my original list, which was to your budget of $3k, which some of my colleagues are forgetting.

My recommendation for the Triton (with all its faults) was mainly budgetary. You have the saw, and a 2nd hand Triton WC can be had for under $200.

This is pragmatism, at it's finest - not blind idealism.

Anybody in their right mind would choose a tablesaw over a Triton, however the one that seems to be preferred is at least $1500, half your budget!

I wouldn't see the Triton aong term proposition, if you to stay with semi serious woodworking and can afford a true TS. One thing that caused me to move on is the time it takes to change the settings, however with a decent SCMS you can dedicate the Triton to ripping.

Finally, after a few months with the Triton you wil be in a position to make an informed decision, based upon your experience and criteria re a TS. Look at it as productive insurance

Please let us know what you end up spending the $3k on.

Originally Posted by Bodgy

Finally, after a few months with the Triton you wil be in a position to make an informed decision, based upon your experience and criteria re a TS. Look at it as productive insurance

.

Exactly, and getting one for a few hundred now from the trading post will alow more spent on other stuff and then the TS will be your first "main" upgrade