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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemerv View Post
    This was very helpful, thanks. Sounds like 1100W is sufficient for most applications. The only thing I’m wondering is router bit cost. Ideally, I’d like to buy quality (ie probably expensive) bits as I need them. If I get a router now that takes 1/2” bits then I can also use these on a table router (which I’ll probably get one day). If not, then I guess I’d have to potentially double up on bits down the line? Or am I overthinking it?
    IMO you are overthinking it.

    There are two schools of thought.
    One -- e.g. elanjacobs -- says don't buy a router that can't take 1/2" bits.
    the other says at the outset plan on eventually buying three routers -- start with a router designed to work with 1/4 and 8 mm shank bits, then add either a trimmer (for edge profiling and similar) or a large router designed for large 1/2" shank bits (plan on mounting the large router in a table). Add the 3rd router as you refine you uses.

    Both schools of thought are valid.



    What I will add is that this will be your first router. I have well over $4,000 worth of a router bits -- mostly inherited from my father -- thanks dad.
    A lot of them are 1/4" shank bits, a smaller number are 8 mm shank ones, plus 1/2" inch ones.
    the 1/4" shank ones are mostly for detail work. The smallest is a 1/16" straight cutter and the largest (1/4" shank) is 19mm across the profile. I only rarely use this one. Many of my 1/4" shank bits are for routing edge profiles.
    The 8 mm shank bits are heavier (shank wise) than the 1/4" bits and are intended for use with the Leigh and Gifkins dovetail and box joint jigs.
    The 1/2" bits vary from a 3/8" solid carbide up-cut spiral, through morticing bits, finger joint cutters, and rail and style bits, plus a very large (89mm dia) panel raising bit.


    My thoughts are that a router capable of taking an 8mm collet will have sufficient power for your likely use.
    8 mm shank bits should be "strong enough" for any profile smaller than about 30 mm dia. Note that now Lee Valley stock Festool routers, 8mm shank bits are readily available in North America.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

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  3. #17
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
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    Elan & Ian both raise good points. Any tool has pro & cons in the various applications they can be put into service to do - in the router example,


    • go big, heavy & powerful if it will be bench mounted and mostly performing shaper / spindle moulder operations
    • go medium, manageable, and flexible if you want an all rounder (no pun intended.)
    • go light, with dexterity and less fatigue if you want mostly trimmer, or fine detail functionality.


    Horses for courses - oh and avoid "grey imports" & support local manufacturing if at all possible. So many fakes out there.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  4. #18
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    Lemery

    There is probably no one right or wrong answer and initially everything is a compromise. What I would point to is that down the track you will count up the dollars in the router bits you have and realise that the money spent on the router (s) was quite insignificant in comparison.

    About forty years ago I started out with my first router which was a 2HP Ryobi. It was a 1/2" machine with adapters for 8mm and 1//4". 1/2' shank bits are more robust and you can always use an adapter collect down to the smaller shank sizes when required. They are easily available even if they don't come with the machine. The majority of bits in Australia are either 1/2" or 1/4". Chinese offering are frequently 8mm and Ian above indicates they are more prevalent in the US too. You can always scale down with adaptors from a 1/2' collet. You cannot go the other way around.

    If you start off with a 2HP machine that suits your budget, you can go bigger or smaller at a later date. It will do most of the work you need. As far as the router bits are concerned you either buy them as required or you can buy a set, but many of the bits in a set will never be used.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  5. #19
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    Thanks everyone, lot's to consider. The "all rounder" is what I think makes the most sense for me starting out.

    Would appreciate if anyone is able to to make some suggestions for models available in Aus that fit this category.

    Cheers

  6. #20
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    Hi L. I can recommend the DeWalt 621 router (not the 621-XE just 621). Seems to fit all your requirements spec wise and I have had mine for a while now. I mostly use it for trenching stair stringers and it runs all day. Takes 1/2" and 1/4" bits and I would recommend Carbitool too.

  7. #21
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    The tool manufacturer will tell you what the maximum router bit cutter diameter capacity is.
    Call them or email them and ask.
    You do not want a high speed router bit breaking free and flying at lightning speed somewhere unexpectedly.
    The basic theory is.
    As the router bit diameter increases the router's horse power and Amps should increase.
    Also variable speed for router bits larger than 1 inch in diameter.
    Wood hardness and rpms will also determine how hard and how fast to feed the wood into the spinning router bit.
    You will learn and know by the sound of the motor when you are feeding the wood into the router bit with too much force.
    The rpms usually drop and the motor will groan like your destroying the motor.
    Feeding wood fast and hard using a more powerful router will sometimes burn the wood and sometimes smell smoky depending on the rpms.
    When a router motor is less powerful make multiple passes.
    Also avoid exceeding the router's maximum router bit diameter capacity.
    Use less force and speed into the router bit.
    Basically you will get a feel for the router motor. If you don't you might burn the motor up sooner than you want .
    One final light pass gives a good smooth finish.
    Good luck and have fun.
    Protect your eyes, hands and ears.

  8. #22
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    I’m having a good look at this Bosch (BOSCH 1600W 1/2inch Router GOF 1600 CE | Total Tools). Probably a bit beefier than the “all rounder” class but seems to fit the bill. Bit on the heavy side though so am planning to see it in the flesh once lockdown ends here is NSW.

  9. #23
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    lemerv

    I have never used a Bosch router but I quite like Bosch tools and feel they are well made for the price. I have several including angle grinders and drills.

    The machine you linked looks like the goods. I was going to say that the 8mm collect seemed odd but as you will see in the review below it is in fact a 1/4", which is much more satisfactory.

    Review: Bosch GOF 1600 CE - YouTube

    The bloke compares the Bosch to a Festool machine and a Triton. The Festool is very expensive and really out of contention for that reason. The Triton routers are, to my mind, top heavy for hand held use. I have the larger model, which I use under a table, but I see in the review there is the same criticism of the 1400w machine. His main complaint of the Bosch is that some of the accessories, including the fixed base, are not available in Oz.

    Others have mentioned the DeWalt range so probably worth checking them out. I can't comment on them as I have only their small model which is just slightly larger than a laminate trimmer, but has both the fixed base and plunge base.

    Regards
    Paul

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #24
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    Default Odd Shank Sizes.

    My router is a Makita 3620 - probably 20 years old, 1000w.

    I once broke a 1/4" shank bit - pushing too hard I guess. The manual said it would take maximum 3/8" shank, but 8mm collets were also available. I figured an 8mm shank has twice the cross sectional area of a 1/4" shank, while a 3/8" shank has near 4 times the cross sectional area. Much less chance of breaking the bigger shanks should I get careless again.

    I now have a number of 3/8" and 8mm shank bits, mostly straight bits. For roundover, ogee, and other shapes I still have to use 1/4" shank bits.

    Anyway, the point of this post is to say, don't write off odd shank sizes, especially if you're heavy handed occasionally.

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  11. #25
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    I'm in the United States Of America.
    I use powerful non plunge routers under my router table.
    I also use them free hand for my dovetail jig and they work great.
    Thats a fine Plunge router and specifications.
    Make sure the router base diameter matches the router table.
    Make sure the mounting screws and the hole patterns line up and the table or table insert can handle the router weight without flexing.
    Before purchasing I check the manual and parts list to see how easy it is to repair and maintain at home.

  12. #26
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    Thanks all. Yes seems the Bosch is the way to go. The availability of accessories is annoying but seems easy enough to get from Amazon so no t a big deal. I will have a look in store when I get the chance and see how it feels.

  13. #27
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    I purchase the best quality router bits.
    Avoid cash in the trash.
    Replacing 2 or 3 junk router bits might cost as much money or more money than 1 great quality router bit that will last several years when properly cared for.
    Some wood parts being routed are small meaning my hands are closer to the spinning router bit at a technically safe distance.
    Quality router bits take a constant beating at high rpms, hard woods and an occasional hidden knot.
    I've been very fortunate over the last 40 years of weekly router projects.
    I clean and inspect my router bits for defects, cracked welds ect.
    Still the thought of a carbide breaking free and a trip to the ER is not my idea of fun.
    Cheap router bits may not be balanced as good as expensive router bits.
    Unbalanced router bits will usually over time destroy the router's ball bearings.
    Unbalanced router bits can transfer vibration or chatter to the wood and sometimes make the cut look poor.
    Cheap router bits usually have thinner carbides.

  14. #28
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    melbourne australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    I figured an 8mm shank has twice the cross sectional area of a 1/4" shank, while a 3/8" shank has near 4 times the cross sectional area.
    By my calcs a ⅜” shank has 2.25 times the cross sectional area of a ¼” shank.

  15. #29
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    One more thought in regards to some but not all plunge routers.
    Depending on the manufacturer/ brand and design.
    Sometimes but not always the 2 vertical springs may or may not make router bit adjustments a little difficult or challenging.
    Basically some router manufacturers depth adjustments may be smoother than others. I haven't shopped for routers in a long time.
    Modern plunge routers motors, plunge posts and depth adjusters have improved a lot over the last 15-25 years.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    By my calcs a ⅜” shank has 2.25 times the cross sectional area of a ¼” shank.
    these are what I calculate

    shank size
    6 mm = 28.27 mm^2. Comment: while apparently common in continental Europe they are exceedingly rare to just not available in Australia.
    1/4in (6.35 mm) = 31.67 mm^2 Comment: available almost anywhere in Australia where router bits are sold
    8 mm = 50.27 mm^2. Comment: Available in Australia but not ubiquitous, also available from Festool.
    3/8in (9.525 mm) = 71.26 mm^2 Comment: have not seen any for sale in Australia. Might be available for CNC machine collets.
    10 mm = 78.54 mm^2 Comment: have not seen any for sale in Australia. Might be available from Festool as the metric equivalent to 3/8in
    12 mm = 113.08 mm^2 Comment: was a "standard" size shank in Europe, may have been partially supplanted by 1/2" bits from the US.
    12.7 mm = 126.68 mm^2 Comment: in Australia as readily available as 1/4" bits.


    Ratios
    1/4in to 8 mm -- 1:1.59
    1/4in to 3/8in -- 1:2.25
    8 mm to 1/2in -- 1:2.52
    1/4in to 1/2in -- 1:4


    Cautions
    The cross-sectional are of a router bit's shank (1/4", 8 mm, 1/2") is not proportional to the shear resistance (resistance to breaking) of the shank material. Four times the material does not translate to four times the strength. Shank breakage involves a component of bending moment as well as pure shear and the relationship (moment of inertia?) involves powers of 3 (or is it 4?).
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

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