Thread: worn out jigsaw replacement

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I have seen reference in the past to some "exotic" machines, for want of a better description, but cannot recall details.

Paul, you might possibly have been thinking about Mafell. They have the distinction of making Festool look cheap. Supposedly they actually cut square which neither my current Metabo nor any other jigsaw I have owned can seem to do beyond 12mm thickness.

Originally Posted by Huon pine fan

Paul, you might possibly have been thinking about Mafell. They have the distinction of making Festool look cheap. Supposedly they actually cut square which neither my current Metabo nor any other jigsaw I have owned can seem to do beyond 12mm thickness.

Hpf

I think that was indeed the brand that had escaped my memory, but your price comparison had made me a little rubbery kneed and I think it must have been my brain subconsciously protecting me. I think Festool 240V runs out around the $750 mark. I will brace myself and look up Maefell. Maybe I will follow up on Phil's blade strategy first.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Phil

Thanks for the reminder on the blades. You are quite right. My existing tool is a barrel style Blue Bosch 650W.

I am open to all recommendations on jigsaws and blades.

Regards
Paul

I'll stay out of the jigsaw part but from a blade perspective i've always had good experience with the Vermont American brand that you can buy from bunnings, making them easy to source

PC180854.jpg

I usually have the 6tpi version on hand but couldn't find one for the photo, this is the High Carbon Steel one, they also do a Bi-Metal version that would be better for hardwoods, the Bi-metal are far better than the common blades normally found.


Cheers
Phil

I haven't seen those Vermont American blades for years now, I'm sure of got some hanging around somewhere. I believe that they have been replaced at Bunnings with Diablo blades, which I find are good quality.

Originally Posted by Deverell

I haven't seen those Vermont American blades for years now, I'm sure of got some hanging around somewhere. I believe that they have been replaced at Bunnings with Diablo blades, which I find are good quality.

insert multiple swear words, i was sure i picked up some during 2020, but maybe i was just opening packets long bought ....

Doesn't change the essence of less TPI for hard/thick timber

Off to find a source for the AV blades i love

Originally Posted by Deverell

I haven't seen those Vermont American blades for years now, I'm sure of got some hanging around somewhere. I believe that they have been replaced at Bunnings with Diablo blades, which I find are good quality.

Correct. And they recently added German made Kinchrome blades to their range:

Kincrome PTA 2 Piece Double Edge Jigsaw Blade Combo | Bunnings Warehouse

I'm going to fly in the face of most previous recommendations. Do NOT buy a Festool. The company seems to lack the necessary smarts, & perhaps R&D Deutschmarks, to make a satisfactorily performing tool. My own example, a PS300 EQ, supposedly Festool's most powerful & accurate model, suffers terribly from blade wander even in the most forgiving, thinnest materials & premature heat-related blade failure. Those much-vaunted ceramic blade guides seem to be the culprit. They require interminably fiddly fine adjustment each & every time you either change blade types or even orbital settings! Ridiculous!

Easily my worst saw ever. Even an old 70s vintage Elu jiggy was superior: more accurate & better designed! Complaints about the less powerful PS400 corded & cordless models are legion from disgruntled owners.

Bosch, as inventors of the tool, generally lead the pack in terms of creating robust, accurate & well designed quality jiggies. Don't know much about their latest models, except that @ around 800-900w they're plenty powerful, but my GST 135 BCE (bow handled model) is my preferred go-to tool. It's a simple, (relatively) powerful machine ideally suited to a variety of media.

I also have a Mafell P1cc. Another excellent tool. It's simple, crude, robust & powerful. In fact, just what's needed in a pro jigsaw. It has no blade guidance whatsoever, proving conclusively that scrolling back-rollers, ceramic guides & all that other unnecessary palaver are actually little better than smoke & mirrors perhaps designed to disguise pendulum & clamping inadequacies in lesser machines. When combined with their superb Cunex hand-brazed & relief ground blades there's no better machine for curved work. Be warned however, that these "state of the art" blades will cost some AU $70 + postage from the UK or Germany per pair: maybe (if you're lucky) a "mere" $50-60 EACH! That extra-wide (double width) cut & back relief grinding are the keys to the blades' accuracy in curves. The blades are stiffer than all others with sufficient relief to accurately describe tight radii in even the thickest substrates.

So why isn't it my favourite then? I don't especially like its bodygrip design - or any other bodygrip format either. Bodygrip saws, like my old Elu, Fuss-fool, Mafell & 2 Metabos often require a 2-handed grip for working on top of the material. It seems to work well in plate steel, but less so in wood & synthetics. Bodygrip saws are principally designed to cut in the "European" manner, i.e. from underneath. No matter how hard or how often I try, this method simply doesn't work for me. It feels awkward, uncomfortable, counter-intuitive & generally cack-handed.

My Bosch 135 bow-handled tool is simply "better". A single hand is all that's ever required for a firm, secure & safe grip. Even in the thickest timber or steel. I can start, stop & infinitely adjust the (preset) speed "on the fly" just using the single trigger switch. Ideal for stopped cuts, where faster & slower speeds are often necessary. It stops exactly where & when I want it to. I can precisely feather the cutting speed as required. Bodygrips require the operator to preselect a (single) speed & then manipulate an often awkwardly located on/off switch with a precariously extended digit. This, to me, is just stupid. The merits of an integrated on/off "accelerator switch" are just so blindingly obvious & advantageous that I'm amazed that those of us who still prefer to operate the saw above our material still persist in using them.

It took literally decades for me to discover the ergonomic & operational advantages of bow handles, & for me there's no going back. Many years ago back when the old AEG conglomerate actually made worthwhile & high quality power tools I had an Atlas Copco designed AEG jigsaw that was a type of hybrid bow/bodygrip. One of my favourite tools ever that was unfortunately stolen. Not especially powerful or sophisticated in any way but in common with many pre-millenial AEG & Atlas Copco products an absolute ergonomic design exemplar.

Which brings me to the 2 Metabos that I've had. The first, an STE 135 was my preferred steel cutter. I just felt the best saw for this task. I ended up gifting the saw when I "discovered" the bow-handled Bosch. Yet I purchased another STE 140 Plus as a replacement. A good saw. It came with an amazing array of bells & whistles attached. Auto accelerator speed control (from a type of load-responsive soft-start type algorythm), twin LED headlamps (actually extremely helpful with my fading eyesight to follow a faint cutline), strong alloy gearcase, frame & platen. If I'd bought the STEB 140 Plus instead, it might have been the closest yet to "the perfect jigsaw". But because I'd (stupidly) bought in a bodygrip style, it isn't.

So to summarise what I'd seriously recommend in a jiggy, I'd create 2 checklists titled "must haves" & "nice to haves". In the former column I'd include accuracy. Which automatically eliminates most cheap 'n nasties & all Fuss-tools. A Bow handle, excluding about half of what's left. Power, leaving a small select group of "pro" machines from the likes of Makita, Metabo, Bosch & ........ can't readily think of m/any others.

In the "nice to haves" I'd look for LED lights, tool-free blade change & bevel adjustment. Mafell's accessory bevel shoe is a stupidly expensive but superbly engineered & robust bit of kit that is quite frankly all but superfluous when compared to the simplicity & convenience of tool-free tilting soleplates on the best of the rest.

If you're cutting curves a lot in the thickest & hardest hardwoods, then you really need a Mafell, with Cunex blades. If you're cutting plate steel then either a Bosch or Metabo would be better. If you're really after an allrounder, then I personally think you'd be hard pressed to buy better than a bow handled top'o the line Bobbie Bosch GST 160 BCE (the next most powerful & capacious saw to the Mafell), or Metabo's STEB 140 Plus, with slightly less power & capacity but with slightly more sophisticated electronics.

I haven't mentioned cordless saws at all mainly because I don't really know, nor have used, many. Also, it's pretty rare to find a top quality powerful bow-handled cordless jiggy on the market, if they actually even exist at all. Most cordless jiggies seem a bit "compromised" performance-wise to me.

I also haven't mentioned dust extraction either. Principally because its a bit of a non sequitur to me. Jiggies don't actually produce the prodigious amounts of dust & swarf of many other power tools. Additionally, the fitment of an extra dust hose to what is already a relatively awkward-handling tool (especially the bodygrip models) makes an already difficult & exacting task that much harder again. Unless extraction is critically necessary, I personally seldom if ever bother. For what it's worth, Mafell (naturally) has superior extraction design & performance.

Thanks Ratty for such a comprehensive report.

I did take the time to watch some videos on the Mafell, but I am still reeling from the pricing (probably close to 1K) and the difficulty of obtaining one with no Australian distributor.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I am still reeling from the pricing (probably close to 1K) and the difficulty of obtaining one with no Australian distributor.

Paul, there is a Melbourne company advertising them, The Peoples Tool Company, although currently out of stock. Buckle yourself in, the price is somewhat north of your $1k, $1399!

Originally Posted by Huon pine fan

Paul, there is a Melbourne company advertising them, The Peoples Tool Company, although currently out of stock. Buckle yourself in, the price is somewhat north of your $1k, $1399!

Ok. I was basing my costs on this Ebay listing from the UK.

MAFELL JIGSAW P1 CC MAXIMAX CASE IN THE T-MAX 240 VOLT 917121 | eBay

Roughly A$975 once shipping and import charges are added. I occurred to me that the manufacturer could be approached too, but that would depend on the arrangement with the Australian outlet.

Regards
Paul

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

Non-"Plus" models are even cheaper: from $279 on flea-bay. Misses out on some of those "nice to haves" 'though.


Bosch GST 160 BCE Jigsaw Bow Handle | Axminster Tools International

Axminster delivers locally. You can also pay in Au $.

Mafells are often readily available used from the UK & Germany. Try the relevant flea-bay sites. Typical prices are around GBP 300 or Euro 400 for what appears to be reasonably serviceable examples: perhaps a bit more if the accessory angle platen is included. Just be sure that your UK sourced saw is a 230-240V example & not their tradies' mandatory 110V version. The latter are easily identified by their large yellow round plug on the nether end of the power cable.

Postage for most imports runs to around Au $100 or so, making that locally-sourced, postage-included STEB 140 Plus @ around $400 a bit of a bargain. You also get Metabo Australia's 3 year warranty too. All (new) imports will require 2-way postage to the retailer & back to you @ your expense for warranty work.

Best place (currently) to get Mafell products is from Dictum, Germany. Prices displayed include EU VAT, but will get deducted when you choose Aus.

This was the best and cheapest option I could find when I got the P1cc - and I spent a lot of time looking at various countries and import options. (It was under AU$1000 at the time, but I think there was a special on). Don't forget that if you go over AU$1000 you'll be stung for import and GST here.

I'd get the blue Bosch from Axminister

The under $!000 GST rule has not applied for well over 12 months, you now pay GST on all items.

Originally Posted by China

The under $!000 GST rule has not applied for well over 12 months, you now pay GST on all items.

You're supposed to pay GST. I still have stuff coming through without it and customs don't seem to bother.

If you exceed $1000 you pay import duty as well, and GST on the duty as well as the order total + shipping, so it's still a threshold. Below this, it's only GST on the order, and no duty.