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  1. #31
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    Aaaah, spare parts? From a bloke on flea-bay?
    Perhaps this is why I bought a Husky 395XP and a Sthil brushcutter from a dealer that knows all about service and spare parts IF I ever need them.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hilly View Post
    Aaaah, spare parts? From a bloke on flea-bay?
    Perhaps this is why I bought a Husky 395XP and a Sthil brushcutter from a dealer that knows all about service and spare parts IF I ever need them.
    Unfortunately by the time you buy the spare part and get it installed as well as do the routine maintenance it will cost you more than a new ebay saw. That's the point everyone misses. For a regular service at the dealer you essentially buy a new ebay saw. For amatuers which can afford some downtime and who don't use it all that often the Husky's initial cost and it's ongoing maintenance are overkill. Different story if you are running a business and time is money literally and keeping appointments and getting work done on time as agreed means more business which means more money.

    Perhaps now that Costco is opening up in Australia we might get some deals on brand name equipment.

  4. #33
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    The spare side cover I was sent for free had Partner marked on the inside. Good chance genuine Partner spares might fit. If they are still made. I have seen a lot of cheap Chinese knock-offs lately, from motorbikes to saws and pumps, and the designs all seem to be "borrowed" from well-known, reliable brand name items. Just built with a much lower attention to detail and standard of quality. Many of the genuine parts fit straight on.

  5. #34
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    And when you buy your new saw from a reputable dealer they will demonstrate that the saw actually runs. This means that they have got the saw to work. They have assembled it, put fuel and oil in it and started it. It will have been tested. They are the people that will do the warranty work if the saw fails.
    If you but a petrol-powered tool from a chain store or the internet it will be in a box, un-assembled. If you don't know how to do the tuning of the carby and all that stuff to get the tool running the way it should run, well, you could be stuffed.
    But at least the tool was cheap.
    Even if it won't work?

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hilly View Post
    If you but a petrol-powered tool from a chain store or the internet it will be in a box, un-assembled. If you don't know how to do the tuning of the carby and all that stuff to get the tool running the way it should run, well, you could be stuffed.
    But at least the tool was cheap.
    Even if it won't work?
    I'd argue that because it isn't assembeled it's a bonus. Plenty of "spares" that come with tools don't get passed on when they are built for you and put into the shops box of parts. Some dodgy retailers even swap parts out for cheaper 3rd party/used replacement bits hoping you will never notice to try to increase their profits. Had that done to me at one place and I was shocked. I only noticed since I wanted to strip it down to learn about it when I saw it.
    Another advantage of not having it built is you actually get to know the tool which is good regardless because you can bet that to clean it properly every so often you will have to strip it back to the way it came in the box anyway. Understanding how to tune a carby via the screws is also a good thing because invariably with weather conditions and wear and tear you will need to adjust these anyway to get optimum performance from your chain saw.

    I don't see any downsides with knowing how to put a tool together and how to tune it and reading through the manual to understand what oils etc it needs so you know they exist. Understanding your tools is not a bad thing.

  7. #36
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    I don't understand the rationale of buying a saw, that as you say can be replaced for the price of a service on a brand name saw, and then spending a lot of time becoming familiar with it, why not just buy another one? Even knowing the intimate details of the inside and outside of a dog stool doesn't change the fact that it is still a dog stool. If you want to fiddle with or learn about saws it would be far more useful to spend your time working on something like an old McCulloch or Stihl, or rebuilding a burnt out brand name saw. Then you would at least end up with a tool that is worth knowing something about and that can actually do a day's work at a reasonable rate without fiddling about retuning all the time.

    BTW While I agree knowing about a saw is a good thing, unless it is a racing saw it should not be necessary to fiddle with or retune a CS for different weather conditions. A well made and tuned CS should be able to run every day for weeks or even months without retuning. Provided it is not damaged the only time a CS should need retuning is if the working altitude is changed by more than about 1000 m.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Then you would at least end up with a tool that is worth knowing something about and that can actually do a day's work at a reasonable rate without fiddling about retuning all the time.
    Lets face facts. A chain saw isn't exactly the latest tech nor has it really changed alot and they all do the same thing and work in a similar manner. The difference comes in the materials/tolerances rather than the tech/concept.

    Learning how to tension a chain is good to know regardless of brand and usually done in a similar manner no matter what brand of saw. Too often you get ignorant people, the same people that rely on the shop to do everything for them, that risk their lives because they don't know how to tension a chain nor even know what the correct tension should be. Since I installed the chain in mine, took the timet o fine out what the tension should be like and tensioned it I have no fear for example to retension when needed unlike a guy who just has no clue about it and relies on the shop and hence is more prone to run it loose to save a buck between services or is too lazy to get to the shop to adjust it.

    Adjusting carbs is a similar story. If you have worked out how to do it on a $100 chainsaw you'll know ho to do it on a $1000 chainsaw. Infact the cheaper saw are ideal to learn on since even if you stuff it up you lose very little and all your knowledge is transferrable.

    I really don't understand why learning the ins and outs of a cheap chainsaw is a waste of time compared to an expensive chainsaw since really what's applicable to one you can take to the other.

  9. #38
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    Well, I do tend to agree with some of these comments but I have had some experiences with cheap and expensive saws. I have an Echo CS701 that I bought about 35 years ago and has had a couple of new bars and chains and 3 new spark plugs. I know that saw inside-out and know it will start on the 4th pull of the cord even if hasn't been used for a year. I adjusted the carby about 5 years ago and havn't looked at ir again. Same with the Husky 395XP. Choke, de-comp button, pull cord a couple of times and away it goes. No problems.
    I also have a little GMC top-handle saw which is light and handy. It came in a box and I put it together myself with few problems. I got it to start, tuned the carby without any instructions because there weren't any to speak of and it worked fine. Bastard of a thing needs a re-tune evry time I use it, needs a squirt of ether to get it going on a cold day but it was cheap. I should have saved my money and bought either an Echo or Sthil top handle saw for about 4 times the money and 20 times less aggro.
    Just my view of things. We each have our opinions of value and enjoyment. I am too old to be bothered with crap that just does not do what I want when I want it to.

  10. #39
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    I really don't understand why learning the ins and outs of a cheap chainsaw is a waste of time compared to an expensive chainsaw since really what's applicable to one you can take to the other.
    I would hardly call adjusting the chain tension or setting the carbs "learning the ins and outs of a saw", that's just basic CS maintenance which given the way CS's run (ie WOT) every CS owner should learn and is usually provided in a decent quality users manual. Learning how to change the tyres and tuning a car hardly qualifies as knowing the ins and outs of a car. Learning the ins and outs of a CS is rebuilding it and getting it running again better than it did to begin with.

    Lets face facts. A chain saw isn't exactly the latest tech nor has it really changed alot and they all do the same thing and work in a similar manner. The difference comes in the materials/tolerances rather than the tech/concept.
    Yep I agree. The same can be said about about something like a hand plane but there is a world of difference between a $20 special and a quality hand plane. The tolerances and materials are indeed the major differences between the two and combined with design determine what the maximum possible performance of a tool is. With the cheapie the operator mainly learns frustration while with the other they have the opportunity to really learn how to plane and the inns and outs of planing.

    Given the way a CS operates (ie WOT), materials and tolerances are even more important than a hand plane which is why I specifically knock cheap chainsaw but not cheap tools in general (I have many in my shed). A CS only needs to be slightly off tune or under an increased load for a short time it to experience major increases in operating temperature and thus an increased potential for piston meltdown. Poor tolerances lead to air leaks which kill 2 stroke engines. Even when just cutting firewood, a drifting carb, a blunt chain and an impatient operator can kill a poorly made saw, whereas the saw made with the superior materials and tolerances will usually pull through such an experience. An finally, if an operator requires a CS to run long and hard in a deep cut then no matter how well adjusted it is, poor materials and tolerances will not, so to speak, "cut it"

    After 40 years of buying cheap tools (I must be a slow learner) I still buy them but no longer expect them to perform in the same way or under the same conditions as a pro tool and I no longer bother to learn the inns and outs of them. I do what you say you will do, I just buy another one. Occasionally I am pleasantly surprised, like my cheapie Ozito angle grinder - that sucker is 7 years old and just runs and runs but I also I never let it get too hot and try not to drop it too often

  11. #40
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    I agree 100% Old hilly,its cheap for a reason and thats because, at the end of the day You get what u pay for,if you want to buy that stuff good luck to ya

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I would hardly call adjusting the chain tension or setting the carbs "learning the ins and outs of a saw", that's just basic CS maintenance which given the way CS's run (ie WOT) every CS owner should learn and is usually provided in a decent quality users manual. Learning how to change the tyres and tuning a car hardly qualifies as knowing the ins and outs of a car. Learning the ins and outs of a CS is rebuilding it and getting it running again better than it did to begin with.
    Sure the basics such as adjusting chains etc are not the be all and end all of knowing the ins and outs of a chainssaw but then why would anyone bring that up as a selling point for expensive vs cheap tools if the person didn't have the slightest clue how to do it themselves. It's literally a 1 minute job and like I've said knowing how to do so is a positive. If you can't put together a chainsaw out of it's box then you shouldn't be using it. It shouldn't even come up in a conversation why brand A is better than brand B because it's so trivial who cares unless you are one of those who can't learn the basics of maintenance and at that point I question whether you should be using a chainsaw.

    If you then want to head into learning how to rebuild the engine etc then a cheap chainsaw is ideal regardless to learn off. I rebuilt my first motorbike engine off an ancient craptacular motorbike I picked up for pocket change and learnt a shitload off it and made some mistakes along the way. By learning on the cheap stuff when I later upgraded to a better bigger newer bike that cost a fortune I took all that knowlege with me and it all applied. Could I have learnt on the expensive bike first? Sure but it would of cost me a hell of alot more with no gain in knowledge so buying cheap and learing the ins and outs of stripping a cheap quality bike certainly was beneficial.

    The tech of a cheap chainsaw applies just as equally as the tech of an expensive brand chainsaw. Learning the ins and outs of one is pretty much equal to learning the ins and outs of the other with exceptionally minor changes. To say it's a waste of time is absurd.

    If your argument for an expensive chainsaw is reliability and ease of parts support then I won't argue with you but that is not what we are discussing at this point in time.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitpost View Post
    I agree 100% Old hilly,its cheap for a reason and thats because, at the end of the day You get what u pay for,if you want to buy that stuff good luck to ya
    Have you bothered reading what we are discussing or did you just like the sound of your own post?

    No one is arguing that reliability is better and it sure as hell should be at 8x the cost. We are discussing whether it's a waste of time to learn about your chainsaw (or any tool) just because it's cheap. Answer is no it's not. Whether it is worth folowning through and replacing a part given how cheap they are is another matter.

    This tolerances argument is a bit of a strawman. What you are saying is that if a chainsaw (cheap) lasts you 6 months of use then at 8x the price of an expensive CS you would need to have the expensive saw last 4 years without doing any maintenance on it before you broke even. That means it needs to be at least 4 times as reliable. Throw in the regular maintenance and it's going to be closer to at least 8 years because you should be servicing that saw once ever year at least and each service is pretty close to the price of a new cheap chainsaw. At the age of 8 years to break even you'd have to be a serious pro to get that much use out of it. Probably 1% of the population would end up using it to that extent. In the end for a regular person it's no longer worth it. I certainly don't regret buying my cheapo CS. At the rate it's going I'll probably would never ever have come close to breaking even using an expensive saw. Another point is as they get older the parts become harder to get rendering them useless after a certain period of time. My Stilh brushcutter is toast because I can't get the carby kit anymore for example, yes it is 20 years old but looking back I won't be buying another taking my experiences into account. When I look at tools now I base then on a 15 year life model. If I haven't made significant savings over the cheap tool in those 15 years then I don't bother buying it. Of course it comes down to how often I use the tool as well. My CS gets used ~ 6 times a year for eg so not alot while my brushcutter gets used ~20 times a year for eg.

  14. #43
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    Yes, I agree with what you say about time to recoup your investment. I bought my Echo saw when our second child was born. He is now 35 years old. I still have the saw. I still use the saw. I have worn out a few chains, replaced the bar twice and changed the sparkplug a few times. The muffler now comes from a Briggs and Stratton mower.
    I think that the saw paid for itself about 30 years ago, the rest is like money in the bank. My kids will probably inherit the Echo and 395XP but the GMC will be garhering mud wasps in the junkheap before too long.
    Buy something good and learn to look after it. Don't be tempted to buy something cheap and then HAVE to learn how to fix it and then keep fixing it. Life is too short for playing with petrol engines when you should be playing with your family. This is an undeniable truth which I have learned from experience. With the addition of Benzine to ULP those who play with petrol powered tools will probably have a shorter life anyway, so there is another reason NOT to buy cheap tools that you have to fix all the time.
    That is the end of my epistle, take care with petrol and it's aromatic hydrocarbons.
    Dennis.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by montiee View Post
    If you then want to head into learning how to rebuild the engine etc then a cheap chainsaw is ideal regardless to learn off. I rebuilt my first motorbike engine off an ancient craptacular motorbike I picked up for pocket change and learnt a shitload off it and made some mistakes along the way. By learning on the cheap stuff when I later upgraded to a better bigger newer bike that cost a fortune I took all that knowlege with me and it all applied.
    Sure anyone can practice on anything and gain some skills that way but my point is why bother to practice on a crap bike if all you ended up with was a crap bike?

    Could I have learnt on the expensive bike first?.
    Who said anything about expensive? I'm talking about learning on an older quality saw. You could have learned the same or more on a used or even burnt out newer quality bike that needed rebuilding, and if it is was rebuilt from wrecked parts the rebuilding itself need not be expensive either. Then you would eventually arrive at something of value.

    Last year I managed to pick up a 6 year old seized 660 for nothing. A 3rd party big bore cylinder and piston kit imported from the US for AUS$200 (including shipping) and I now have a reliable 100 cc brand name saw that starts easily, cuts like a real big saw and will still out live 4 or 5 cheap chainsaws.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Sure anyone can practice on anything and gain some skills that way but my point is why bother to practice on a crap bike if all you ended up with was a crap bike?
    Because the act of learning itself means that you inherently may screw things up or get it wrong. Also cheap nobrand stuff usually has MUCH cheaper parts because they are of lesser quality which means that even if you made a mistake why something wasn't working it's usualy an inexpensive mistake unlike well known brand names that charge an arm and a leg. They are usually easier to find because they use generic parts common to many models unlke alot of brand name tools that change their parts just enough to make them incompatible so they can charge a premium and hold patents. I'm sure alot of us have bought a part thinking it was the cause only to find we were wrong at one stage or another. Now whether it's crap is up to the user. The bike was perfectly fine once I fixed it however it was still crap to me because I wanted something bigger and with more power. The guy who bought it on the other hand was very pleased since all he wanted was a cheap commuter that didn't cost him much petrol. Each tool has it's place and if you don't use yours regularly the cheap tool may be just as good as the super expensive one for the amount of use it gets.

    Also how many people are going to have the guts to buy a brand name saw that is broken and then fork over 100's of dollars in repair kits if they have never ever before worked out how to repair a tool. They need to start somewhere adn the smart money is on a cheap/mid range priced tool. It certainly wont be a husky or a stihl.

    Another reason to buy cheap is also if you don't have a clue about what you want from the tool. By the time you end up using it till it breaks you get a damn good idea of what is important so that when you do spend the money you get the perfect tool. I wish I had my time again with the expensive router I bought. I certainly wouldn't of bought it again given the choice.

    I'm obviously not going to convince you. I think anyone else without an obvious bias against budget tools understands where I am coming from on all fronts. It's a pity you can't.

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