Thread: BobL throws the Chain Saw Mill in for a bandsaw mill!

Originally Posted by BobL

Thanks Paul. This is very useful and similar to those I have in mind.

It sure looks like you were tacking some decent sized logs back then!

Bob

The shorter log yielded 26 (or was it 27) 200mm x 50mm boards and despite the pipe of white ant activity it was superb. It was a dead, standing, Ironbark tree for more than ten years and of course still slightly green towards the middle. It was milled about 1998 and was still one of the best logs I cut. The timber was intended for a small stock yard to round up the owners bulls.

The long log was a spotted gum I milled two or three years ago and I was chasing oversize 200mm x 50mm again, but this time 6.5m long and that was the hard part: The length, which was neccessary for a proposed house extension, which has not come about.

Regards
Paul

To measure the thickness of the milled timber, the BS mill came with a Heath Robinson arrangement consisting of a SS ruler, a length of ally pipe tek screwed to the mill frame and
a short length of length of PCV pipe that slid up and down on the ally pipe.
One of the most irritating things with the arrangement was the ruler could not be read from the standard pushing position.

The new arrangement removes all of the previous bits and pieces and uses a length of 25 x 25 x 3 mm steel angle bolted vertically to the mill frame.
Four disc shaped rare earth magnets and screwed to the angle a shown at C in this photo



The Ruler (A) is firmly held to the vertical by the magnets but can still be easily slid to a nominal "zero position" as defined by an ally bracket (B) attached to the BS carriage that moves in the vertical direction, and all further readings made from there..


The ruler can also now be seen easily from the standard pushing position.

Bob

What pitch is the thread to raise and lower the mill? Mine is four threads to the inch. Consequently four revoulutions equals one inch but doesn't allow for blade thickness so I add half a turn for that. I find I don't use the ruler very much at all in the course of milling, but a lot of counting takes place.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Bob

What pitch is the thread to raise and lower the mill? Mine is four threads to the inch. Consequently four revoulutions equals one inch but doesn't allow for blade thickness so I add half a turn for that. I find I don't use the ruler very much at all in the course of milling, but a lot of counting takes place.l

Thanks Paul. Does that mean you have some sort of mark on the thread so that you can count the revs? I cannot see any mark on the threads of this one.

I'm going to be forced to use the ruler because I have seen some of the cutting lists and there are all sorts of odd sizes that we are going to have to cut

Originally Posted by BobL

Thanks Paul. Does that mean you have some sort of mark on the thread so that you can count the revs? I cannot see any mark on the threads of this one.

I'm going to be forced to use the ruler because I have seen some of the cutting lists and there are all sorts of odd sizes that we are going to have to cut

Bob

The carriage is raised and lowered by a handwheel. One revolution equals 1/4". I don't have pix of this. This is about the best I can do from the wrong side. The yellow handwheel has a bar attached at 90 degs to speed up the operation.

timber milling 004.jpg

While I am thinking of it, the shuttle has a brake attached, which just clamps onto the wheels on one side (not unlike a bicycle brake). You don't want to bend over to inspect the logs and have the the mill, which you left running, move a little (even with an unfortunate gust of wind) and bite you in the a**e .

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

While I am thinking of it, the shuttle has a brake attached, which just clamps onto the wheels on one side (not unlike a bicycle brake). You don't want to bend over to inspect the logs and have the the mill, which you left running, move a little (even with an unfortunate gust of wind) and bite you in the a**e .

Regards
Paul

I agree. you cant be too careful...

Since there seems (don't quote me) to be an obsession here on creating cutting techniques that imply professional/expert/knowwhatdafBckyourdoingwithoutquestion behaviour,,,,,that can only be obtained by moving big ar*e heavy things with flat surfaces around constantly …… I feel….. more effort should be put into safety. uno, safety first.

because, the longer it takes you to do the job, the greater the exposure to other dangers as well. Like sunburn cancer, branches falling on your head, and not to mention dust inhalation from old milling dust that has dried and hits you in the face when the wind picks up.

not to mention the problems associated with the fatigue one gets in the hot australian sun moving big ar*e heavy things around with flat surfaces.

just an opinion. not an expert on anything. 2 cents worth.

To allay your fears of me squashing myself when I move things I should add I have access to the following in the yard.



and

I knooooooow. you've shown pictures before.

I purchased my bandsaw mill second hand. I managed to get it cheap because all the rails were dinged up from forked machinery knocking them all the time trying to deftly place awkward logs. I had to make new rails.

I just think the whole concept of spinning heavy awkward objects on the spot to be fundamentally flawed. Very Slow especially if a lot of movements are needed for say 1/4sawing. Spose thats one of the advantages of lucas mills. And thats why I think portable bandsaw mills should just stick to backsawing, because like I've been trying to say, with a good locking jig, you shouldn't have to move the log.

Be great if you could devise some ideas to speed up the spinning of logs safely. Be fun working out some ways. with the forked machinery...

Originally Posted by JDarvall

I knooooooow. you've shown pictures before.
I purchased my bandsaw mill second hand. I managed to get it cheap because all the rails were dinged up from forked machinery knocking them all the time trying to deftly place awkward logs. I had to make new rails. .

The previous owner of the mill I'm playing with also used a fork lift to place his logs. I think he said he owned it for 6 years and there is just one small ding on one of the 6 cross rails, so it demonstrates it can be done. I class myself as careful slow on the fork lift but all the other guys in the yard are pros. A couple of the guys can even "pancake flip" smaller logs on the forks. Not that I expect to be log turning by pancake flipping but instead using the method I describe below.

I just think the whole concept of spinning heavy awkward objects on the spot to be fundamentally flawed. Very Slow especially if a lot of movements are needed for say 1/4sawing. Spose thats one of the advantages of lucas mills. And thats why I think portable bandsaw mills should just stick to backsawing, because like I've been trying to say, with a good locking jig, you shouldn't have to remove the log.

This mill is not portable and I won't be turning all of the logs.
When I do turn logs the most I expect to be be turning a log is 5 times .
1) first flat
2) Second flat 90º to previous cut
3) Third flat 90º to the previous cut
4) Now cut log into slabs leaving the slabs on the log.
5) Now strap the pack of slabs together and turn by 90º and cut slabs into smaller dimensions.

Be great if you could devise some ideas to speed up the spinning of logs safely. Be fun working out some ways. with the forked machinery...

There is a way to do this on medium/smaller logs with fork lifts that have forks that can rotate around a much greater angle than standard forklifts. The forks are placed a few ft above the log and rotated to their maximum up or down position. Chains are attached to the end of the forks back under the log up to the forks where they are attach to the forklift. The log is lifted slightly and the forks rotated which causes the chain to roll the log. Jeff the tree lopper has done this and said he will show me how to do it. When rolling logs/beams with flat sides the log/beam only has to be rolled a bit past 45º because when the log is put back on the rails it will automatically fall to the flat required side.

I'd like to eventually devise a setup that uses hydraulics as we have a petrol powered hydro pack in the yard.

Originally Posted by BobL

T
When I do turn logs the most I expect to be be turning a log is 5 times .
1) first flat
2) Second flat 90º to previous cut
3) Third flat 90º to the previous cut
4) Now cut log into slabs leaving the slabs on the log.
5) Now strap the pack of slabs together and turn by 90º and cut slabs into smaller dimensions.

sound pretty good. I like the strapping slabs together idea.

but why not….. paint the logs ends first……..after paints dry , with your forklift just place the log..….back up the forklift and pick up a pallet ,(possibly leaving the forks around knee height to save your back)…....lock up the log low like I mentioned with bevel down dogs, and barton screws……..skim the top. Chuck it. cut the slabs one after the next…moving the slabs straight over onto the pallet, stickering as you go all the way to the bottom…..get in the forklift drive the pallet undercover to dry. strap the pallet load if you want. Thats it, no rolling. no readjustment (less exposure to danger, OH&S) etc…..

onto the next log….

Let it dry. Now thats its lighter and easier to handle and has been allowed to move a fair bit, joint and edge it, cut to the widths your after. If your noticing spring, oversize cut and let sit again. End up with straighter timber.

Originally Posted by JDarvall

sound pretty good. I like the strapping slabs together idea.

but why not….. paint the logs ends first……..after paints dry , with your forklift just place the log..….back up the forklift and pick up a pallet ,(possibly leaving the forks around knee height to save your back)…....lock up the log low like I mentioned with bevel down dogs, and barton screws……..skim the top. Chuck it. cut the slabs one after the next…moving the slabs straight over onto the pallet, stickering as you go all the way to the bottom…..get in the forklift drive the pallet undercover to dry. strap the pallet load if you want. Thats it, no rolling. no readjustment (less exposure to danger, OH&S) etc…..

Yep I've done it that way with the chainsaw mill many times and I'll be doing that again especially for some bigger logs or when thicker 3"+ slabs are involved and the slabs have to be moved as individual units. Using a pallet will usually be too short for what I mill.

For slabbed only logs, as you say a log sitting on a flat face is pretty stable so I only plan to use the log holders for the first cut of the flat top and then I will turn the log 180º.
Then I can remove all log locking gizmos and mill the log into slabs but without removing any of the slabs.
Then I will do as you describe, transferring the slabs and stickering as I go - this means I move the forklift into position fewer times.
If remove every slab after they have been cut I have to get onto the forklift - move it into position - get off forklift - move slab - move forklift back out of the way - this just gives me the irrits.
Moving once means I can place the forks level with each slab and lower the forks level to the next slab without getting back onto the forklift. This works up to a point and the the pile of slabs on the forklift becomes higher than the remaining slabs and I can't lower the forks any further, but I can usually do it in two bites which is still better than moving the forklift for every slab.

For small/short logs there's no need to even physically handle the slabs as the stickers with a longish wedge cut end can be inserted in between the slabs with a hammer. I know you don't get to see the cut faces this way but I'm sort of over it these days unless it's special log or a species I have not cut before.

Let it dry. Now thats its lighter and easier to handle and has been allowed to move a fair bit, joint and edge it, cut to the widths your after. If your noticing spring, oversize cut and let sit again. End up with straighter timber.

Your assuming we need to let it dry. Our current cutting lists are all for fencing timber and apparently the customers don't care if its dry or green.

Interesting I haven't noticed most species I cut being that much lighter.
Spotted Gum is only 15% lighter when air dry.
Tuart is 18%
Karri is 25% lighter
Jarrah is a bit more noticeable being 30% lighter

I see what your saying.

look forward to seeing how it goes.

Good One Bob
but yes ... I gotta laugh
good summer holiday project

After much procrastination, hot weather delay, and pathetic excuses I finally made it back to the milling yard yesterday and today.

The idea of these two days was for me to show the Tree loppers lads how to use the mill.
Of course it has to be the two wettest days so far this year so we had to work in between downpours and in soggy sawdust and mud.

The intention was not to give the lads a full blown tutorial on milling but more about how to run the mill.
This is why I decided we would just pump put a few cants so they got the hang of how to set up a log, and reposition it to make an approximately rectangular shaped cants.
This will also help save space in the tree loppers yard which is getting badly crowded with longs.

The first day started with the engine not starting - that turned out to be an air leak in a fuel line.
Then I had trouble with the blade that cut perfectly straight last time I used it but yesterday it was rising in the cut..
We eventually gave up on that one and put on a old re-sharpened band. This one had a bit too much hook for my liking but it's all part of the learning experience.

We started on a couple of small Lemons Scented Gums which were relatively dry and HARD.

Then we did several Swamp Mahognays (Eucalyptus robusta).
I have never milled one before and the wood is known to be quite attractive so I was keen to se what it looked like

Here is the first log.


The first cut was pretty spectacular


Before we could do any more the rain set in and we all got soaked.


This shows the side supports I made last year in action - these are working really well and will hold and adjust a fair size log in this position while the top face cut is being made.
That's Denis and Euan having a go.



Next we threw on a small Swamp Mahogany and decided to slab this one into 25mm boards


Back to Lemon scented gum with Chris getting a go in the drivers seat. At this point the guys were doing it all themselves which let me get out of the rain and into the bog shed to start sharpening some blades - more about that in another post.


Here is the final stash of cants cut up during the day.


With these semi squared off cants it will now be quite easy to grab one and cut it up to size to a clients requirements.

I just got home, soaked and grubby but feeling like we still had achieved something .
Now I'm really enthusiastic to get stick into the pile - especially if I can get the odd bit of help like this from time to time.