Thread: Electric chainsaw sharpener..

Originally Posted by Sigidi

I'm certainly not saying I've 'mastered' filing by hand not by a long shot, . . . .

It's almost 50 years ago but I still recall how sharp my good old dad and his cutting mate Charlie could get their chains. Both he and dad got a lot of sharpening practice because this was their saw.


It was a 350cc Tele's Smith with an 8 ft bar. It had reliability problems as well as the chain on it was relatively soft and it was they were only able to run it about 4 hours a day. The rest of the time they were sharpening and fixing.

Before this saw they had axes and cross cuts, 1.5 days per big Karri tree.
Falling took up to a day, cutting to length a half day

With the Teles it was 4 trees a day!

When the first one man McCullochs came in in 1959 they could do 8 trees a day each! The biggest contributing improvement was the chains, and their ability to sharpen was legend in the karri bush

Originally Posted by Sigidi

I'm certainly not saying I've 'mastered' filing by hand not by a long shot, but I've got to the point where I am happy about how the chain ends up, the life I get from the chain, the portability of hand filing (a file and wedge your pocket, tank of fuel in the saw and walk off into the bush, regardless if you bugger up and hit dirt, I'm right - no hammer needed either - make a club from a close branch) with a grinder I don't have all of the above in one unit.

I'm not saying throw away the file. Of course out in the field if you are desparate then sure bring it along but from what I've experienced if you come prepared with multiple chains it's a moot point. A pack of 3 chains and you are right to go for the entire day without stopping in the middle of a job to fiddle with a file. Rang around the traps and my chain was going for $48 retail for one. Got it at auction for $59 for three delivered .

Originally Posted by Sigidi

I suppose it's horses for courses...

I guess. Some people learnt one way and that's the way that's best. I've never been a patient one to sit there with a file. My knives at home used to stay semi-blunt because I didn't have the patience to use the "superior" wetstone that I go sucked into at the start. Later bought a $20 knife sharpener, a couple swipes and they are good as new and are always sharp now. If the knifes lifespan is a year less out of the 15+ years it will last I'm not too worried. Same principle with chains.

Something to think about with cheap chain grinders;

I was grinding a chain for my 044 so I'd have a nice sharp chain for a job I have tomorrow dropping two Sycamores and cutting the logs into firewood for the people. I ground one side of the chain with no problems but when I turned the chain around to grind the other side it exploded the minute I tried to grind the first tooth. Scared the crap outa me! Is it possible I didn't let the wheel come up to speed before I touched it to the tooth? I was working pretty fast and as soon as I got it set and locked down I turn the wheel on and dove right in. Defective wheel maybe? It is a Northern Tool grinder and I am just using one of their wheels that came with it. I dressed it a few months ago before I used it and rang it before I put it on the grinder to make sure it was sound. I'm still kind of a rookie at grinding chains. Any ideas?

Response

Many grinders don't have a reversible grinding wheel. The UL people don't like sparks to be aimed at the operator. My Efco (same as Oregon 511 and similar to Northern Tool Chinese knock-off) is the old type with reversible wheel. If the wheel engages the tooth in a direction that tends to push the tooth away from the wheel, no problem, but if the wheel tends to pull the tooth into the wheel, then any slop in the tooth will let the tooth lean into the wheel, which can cause the tooth to dig into the wheel and possibly shatter the wheel. The grinder's vise only grips the chain by the drive links. If the chain is not bottomed out snugly into the chain vise or if the tooth is loose in any way, then there is a hazard if the wheel is grinding into rather than out of the tooth. Even with my reversible grinder, I take pains to make sure the tooth is rock solid when I bring the wheel down to contact tooth or raker. I use an awl-shaped tool with a curled end to push the dive link down snugly into the vise before tightening the vise. I also hook the tip of the tool into the tooth and hold the tooth firmly while grinding to prevent any motion.

Originally Posted by BobL

Something to think about with cheap chain grinders;

Sounds to me like it would be a problem with ALL grinders, cheap or not. I'm not sure how paying more for a grinder will ensure that you have snuggly secured the tooth into the vice <shrug>. Sounds more like user error.

Good tip anyway regardless of whether it's expensive or not.

Grinder arrived today but don't have the time to setup it up and play atm. Hopefully I don't make any "user errors" :lol. Need to read that manual thoroughly I think :wink.

Originally Posted by montiee

Sounds to me like it would be a problem with ALL grinders, cheap or not. I'm not sure how paying more for a grinder will ensure that you have snuggly secured the tooth into the vice <shrug>.

Good tip anyway regardless of whether it's expensive or not.

Budget grinders are likely to have poorer quality control on their wheels so as well as not being as effective budget wheels are more likely to disintegrate when they are pushed hard.

Like any budget product it's just a raffle, like the Ozito angle grinder I paid $39 5 years ago, still going strong, but I do buy decent wheels for it, the cheap ones just don't last as long, or they never wear out but they don't grind much either.

Originally Posted by BobL

Budget grinders are likely to have poorer quality control on their wheels so as well as not being as effective budget wheels are more likely to disintegrate when they are pushed hard.

I found that even expensive tools usually have ###### wheels/blades etc in an effort to cut down on costs as well. I've never see a high tooth count quality saw for eg included when I buy a compound sliding mitre saw even if it is a decent brand. All I get is crappy ripping ones for eg.

Whether I buy an expensive or cheap product I always assume that the consumable is of cheap inferior quality. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised. The carlton chain on the cheap chinese saw was pretty decent for eg. If the grinding disc is crapola so be it I'll buy a decent one. As long as the chassis (mines made out of metal) and the motor are of decent quality I'm ok with it. There doesn't seem to be any play in mine which is a good thing. I do wish it had a bench mount rather than me having to go and drill holes in the bench to mount it. In my case it's going to be used so infrequently I probably would never see the difference between a $800+ unit and a $100 one.

You have to admit that no matter how good a disc you have, if you don't secure the chain down and the teath tear into the disc it's going to disintegrate it no matter what so not sure the disc was at fault above. Sounds like he didn't tighten it all down properly or was pushing down with too much force on the grinder for the disc to flex (never a good thing).

I guess I'll see over the next few days when I get some time how it performs.

Finally got around to mounting it on the bench and giving it a shot. Unit was pretty quiet. Very solid as it's made of metal. You could run it in the dead of night and wouldn't wake anyone up. Grinding wheel seems to be holding up ok. Not a unit recommended for extended periods of chain grinding (commercial). Motor runs pretty warm after a while. Casing around motor seems to be aluminium. I'm thinking it's acting like a heatsink so perhaps I'm reading more into it than necessary. It's not hot enough to burn you or cause major discomfort fyi. Most tools have a plastic cover holding/insulating the heat in. You'd probably kill it if you ran it all day without rest/cool down but for the home user grinding a couple of chains a day should be fine. My unit has a nice light that follows the grinding wheel which makes it easy to see how the grinding is going.

MUCH, MUCH faster and accurate than doing it free hand any day of the week once you work out the angles for your chain. I'll be more than happy to come home after a days chainsawing and pop on three chains for a full sharpening than I would be mucking about by hand. Operation is as simple. Set link depth, set angles once. Then for every link just turn dial to feed a link into position against the link stopper and tighten into vice with a turn of a dial and bring down the wheel. Rinse and repeat. Unfortunately I don't have any more wood to cut to try out the new edge..That'll have to wait till next time.

If anyone who does serious chainsawing doesn't have one I don't think you realise how much work you'd be saving yourself. Best of all you do not have to worry about some guy screwing your chain over or grinding excessively because he was too lazy to get a quick feel for the min that should be removed. Of course if you are as lazy as the guy is bound to be no loss either way. You have the convenience of not having to drive out and wait to collect chains. Thing will pay for itself after 3 chains sharpened.

Just a quick question that is off topic somewhat. Anyone know what the effect is if I've lost one blade apart from the obvious that in that section it won't be cutting. I noticed it sheered off while sharpening. I guess it came off when the saw was pinched and I was removing it.

I'm not too worried. Seems it will be more than fine for cutting firewood with just one blade missing.

Edit: Heh, I re-read what I wrote and I didn't quite express it right. I left the original text above as is and just added this clarification. I noticed the blade missing while I was in the process of inspecting the chain for grinding. It sheered off in the process of cutting up the wood at some point. It didn't come off while grinding so I don't want to leave anyone with the impression that the grinder destroyed the blade.

Originally Posted by montiee

Just a quick question that is off topic somewhat. Anyone know what the effect is if I've lost one blade apart from the obvious that in that section it won't be cutting. I noticed it sheered off while sharpening. I guess it came off when the saw was pinched and I was removing it.

I'm not too worried. Seems it will be more than fine for cutting firewood with just one blade missing.

Do you mean an individual cutter?

I would inspect the whole cutter under a magnifying glass to make sure there are no cracks running right through to the rivets. If there are cracks I the break is ragged I would file it smooth to prevent any cracks from developing.

A chain with a missing cutter will make the saw vibrate a bit more than necessary especially when cutting smaller stuff where there are very few cutters in the kerf at any one time. If you have your own breaker/spinner and the chain is fairly new I would replace the cutter but unless it's cracked you can just leave it.

Originally Posted by BobL

Do you mean an individual cutter?

Yes. Not up on the terminology. Cutter is what I meant.

Originally Posted by BobL

I would inspect the whole cutter under a magnifying glass to make sure there are no cracks running right through to the rivets. If there are cracks I the break is ragged I would file it smooth to prevent any cracks from developing.

Will do. It didn't break off at the rivets. It seems to have sheered off above them. Basically there is no cutter on that link so to speak anymore but I will check the rivets out.

Originally Posted by BobL

A chain with a missing cutter will make the saw vibrate a bit more than necessary especially when cutting smaller stuff where there are very few cutters in the kerf at any one time. If you have your own breaker/spinner and the chain is fairly new I would replace the cutter but unless it's cracked you can just leave it.

I can live with that. I'll just leave it as is assuming no cracks in the rivets when I examine it closer.

The rivet's themsleves are not usually a problem but cracks between the broken surface and the rivet hole you should watch out for. ie the red line like this.

I would also smooth off the broken/jagged surface with a file.

Originally Posted by montiee

Finally got around to using the new chainsaw however being the newb I am I basically used it until it couldn't cut butter :lol:. Luckily I just finished doing the job I wanted. I tried sharpening with a file but frankly it's slow going and I can't really do it free hand (no patience).

I'm looking at purchasing an electric sharpener. Budget is ~$70. I won't be using the chainsaw all that often so I can't justify an expensive pro setup. I also prefer to do it on my own rather than hand it into a shop. Things never come back right and the labour costs charged aren't all that attractive compared to a new chain quite frankly. After 4 sharpenings I've paid the unit off and one thing I learnt is that after a reasonable size job it seems I need to do it..

So anyone have any recommendations for a sharpener in the $70 range. I've heard ok things about miller falls so was thinking about this unit (ELECTRIC CHAINSAW SHARPENER Garden Tools - eBay, Other Sewing, Sewing, Crafts. (end time 12-Nov-09 21:33:47 AEDST)).

Any comments? Is it reasonably accurate. Any known problems etc.

Note I appreciate the file enthusiasts but I'm a lazy sod and I know it won't work for me. I also appreciate a good tool which usually comes at a good price but given the infrequent nature of use I just cannot justify a top quality trade tool this time round..

Cheers!

Seriously montiee learn to file sharpen your chains as it will save you lots in the long run!!!! even if you take the chain off the bar and do it in a vice. no matter how good you are with a chainsaw grinder it removes more metal from a chain and does not get it as sharp as you can with a file. I am a saw doctor/ tool maker by trade and all of my chains are sharpened by hand with a file. Husquvarna make a good filing jig as do stihl and oregon (i don't use one however due to plenty of practice) but a file will give a better edge which will cut better and for longer than a grinder and will reduce your chain by less each sharpen and takes only a few minutes when you become proficient and realise that you need to sharpen the chain before you can see 1 or 2 mm of wear on the top plates. Once you become profficient with a file it takes only 5 to 8 minutes to sharpen a 18" bar chain when you refuel and oil.

my two bobs worth a file is a cutting tool as well needs to be sharp too many people use old or rusty files throw em out there only 2 or 3 bucks a new file, chainsaw in a vice and a little practice make sure u have a close up inspection after sharpening to see if its sharp

Originally Posted by Travis Edwards

Once you become profficient with a file it takes only 5 to 8 minutes to sharpen a 18" bar chain when you refuel and oil.

I reckon that's on the slow side. I don't call myself fast but I can usually touch up the cutters on my 42" bar (full comp) in under 5 minutes and on the 60" bar less than twice that.