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  1. #1
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    May 2011
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    Default going green... using off the saw timber for decking?

    howdy all,

    I have a few big mountain grey gums on my place that are/have been removed. the first one i cut mainly posts out of and some slabe from the top section of the logs. i am aiming to use the posts (6m 165x165) for a barn im going to build and now im building a deck and am wondering about the best way to go about it.

    can i use it straight off the saw? is it better to quarter saw or is backsawn ok? what dimensions shoud i go for to keep it stable? im wanting a 100mm roughly board. is it a bad time of year to be laying it say at the start of summer?

    all help appreciated!

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Nerang Queensland
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    Default

    Posts are Ok green, but I would have thought green decking would warp too much. See what others think
    Neil
    ____________________________________________
    Every day presents an opportunity to learn something new

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Ormeau, Gold Coast, Australia
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    Default

    No way should you use green timber on the deck it will cup and rip nails and even screws right out of the joists. I would not use anything wider than 100mm for decking.
    Regards Rumnut.

    SimplyWoodwork
    Qld. Australia.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Dismal Swamp.South Aus
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    Default

    I'm a builder and my instinct says that you can. Not knowing the nature of grey gum I would say you would need to keep the sun off the deck when laid Shade cloth would so the top can still breath. I have built tons of decks and nearly always it arrives wet and when I say wet I mean when you cut it the saw blade has treatment dripping of it but that's pine which is stable. Another thing (Not knowing your building experiance) when laying green or wet we lay them with no gap or only a mil or two so that when the shrink (up to 10mm for a 100mm bourd) they will open up a gap. That's my bit, hope it helps.
    Tim

  6. #5
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    May 2011
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    belgrave vic
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    Default

    well in the three responses there are the two ends of the scale! I definately know it will move but am hearing the 'no way' and the 'yeah itll be fine so i guess its something i might need to try it and see. i posted a thread years ago and a few suggested to use it as decking boards. a sawmill i went to said they sell lots of green timber to the council and the like that build bridges and boardwalks etc all out of green timber.

    so what is the best way then to use the timber as decking if green is no good? rack it out and dry it for a month, 3, 6, a year? then lay it or then kiln dry it? give up on using it as a deck and get more posts/slabs?

    or green is a risk but might work? oil it up lots and hope for the best? if i cut say 100x40?

    thanks for the responses so far!

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Glen Innes
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    127

    Default

    from what i know of grey gum it is a good and durable timber,decking cut from a nice big mature log shouldn't move much at all.100*25mm is plenty for a deck if you have any hesitation about it buckling cut it at 75mm might take a bit more time to lay but less of a chance of it cupping
    cheers pat

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Brookfield, Brisbane
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    Default

    i have layed rough sawn decking heaps of times.

    all decking and flooring should be cut backsawn this will give you a straight board every time.

    best thing it to leave it for about 3 moths after cutting then when you lay it it will have no movement, if you have to lay it off the saw lay it tight against each otehr and teh boards will shrink away.

    greygum will split if dried to fast int eh sun, mainly surface checks try and keep teh sun off for teh inital period after laying.

    Tim Creeper
    I'm a builder and my instinct says that you can. Not knowing the nature of grey gum I would say you would need to keep the sun off the deck when laid Shade cloth would so the top can still breath. I have built tons of decks and nearly always it arrives wet and when I say wet I mean when you cut it the saw blade has treatment dripping of it but that's pine which is stable. Another thing (Not knowing your building experiance) when laying green or wet we lay them with no gap or only a mil or two so that when the shrink (up to 10mm for a 100mm bourd) they will open up a gap. That's my bit, hope it helps.
    Tim
    treated pine decking is kiln dried, profiled and then pressure treated, it has been made stable threw drying the only moisture in it is free watter from teh treating process and althow this will have some shrinkage the timber is quite stable and will not cup or bow like GOS timber.

    www.carlweiss.com.au
    Mobile Sawmilling & Logging Service
    8" & 10" Lucas Mills, bobcat, 4wd tractor, 12 ton dozer, stihl saws.

  9. #8
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    wood Newby,

    been there, done that, got the divorce to prove it.

    I tried many ways ranging from tree 1 day, log the next, 4x1 the second day, dressed 3rd day and laid on the fourth day, right through to leaving them stickered and strapped for 3 months before dressing then laying. When laying them as green as I did I clamped them up tight to each other, they worked out well, but gaps ended up being around 8-10 mm. Others I left stickered 3 months then when laid I gave them a 2mm gap using a nail as a spacer between them - they turned out terrific like a 'bought' stick of decking. I also laid them without dressing, just knocking the top two corners off with an electric plane, again turned out well, but would have been better if I had of at least hit the underside face with teh planer so they where a uniform thickness.

    backsawn is the only way to go as others have said.

    They will only tear off the fixings if you choose to use a crappy piece of timber, one with fiddleback, or wide knots etc. and I also laid 150mm wide bluegum for decking rough sawn too, again no problems.

    but at the end of the day wood newby, its up to you mate
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Nerang Queensland
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigidi View Post
    ...been there, done that, got the divorce to prove it....


    Some poor fools have more than once
    Neil
    ____________________________________________
    Every day presents an opportunity to learn something new

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    belgrave vic
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    Default

    awesome thanks fellas. i think ill run with 3 month air drying to give a good compromise between shrinkage and movement and waiting. are there certain bits of the log that will be better/more stable/stronger or is it all good? also with regards to 'dressing' after three months what initial size should i cut to achieve a 100 x 22-25 board and what do you mean by dressed? is this a process i can do myself or take it to a timber yard?

    thanks heaps boys this is the info and encouragement i needed!

  12. #11
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    Default

    you should not use the heartwood or any bad defected boards.

    you can plain yourself or send it off to a profile and get it made into proper decking.

    i would suggest dressing one side just to get it all uniform thickness, we recently did a rough sawn deck and then sanded the whole thing with a 9" grinder, came up a treat.

    a well sawn 25mm board will produce a good clean 19mm board,

    www.carlweiss.com.au
    Mobile Sawmilling & Logging Service
    8" & 10" Lucas Mills, bobcat, 4wd tractor, 12 ton dozer, stihl saws.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Millmerran,QLD
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    Wood Newby

    Some good advice from other forum members.

    Mountain Grey Gum (E. Cypellocarpa) is different to Grey Gum (E. Propinqua/E. Punctata) and I am not familiar with Mountain Grey Gum. Bootle says it is less dense and not so durable, but suitable for flooring.

    Beware of the trend towards wide boards. They are less forgiving. I would mill the boards to about 85mm x 25mm, lay them partially dried (say down to 30% MC) and settle for a finished board about 75mm wide as the MGG has quite a high shrinkage rate.

    The other advantage of a narrow board is that it is much easier to straighten it as it is laid if required. I would definitely look at dressing one face both to get an even thickness and a better surface to walk on relatively free of splinters. Also look at rounding the corners of the two top edges. Again it is not so sharp on bare feet and it will take any decking preservative or treatment better than an arrised edge.

    If you are saving money on milling your own timber, invest in a bench top type thicknesser (a friend just bought a Ryobi for $450) or even go secondhand if you wish. A router will take care of the rounded corners.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #13
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    Sep 2012
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    Coffs Harbour
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    Default

    I've got to ask......why backsawn.
    From the many hours reading posts on this forum, seems quartersawn is said to be more stable.
    And wouldn't backsawn give you some quartersawn too.

    Ok Dumb newby question, with many more to come.

    Cheers
    Andrew

  15. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barterbuilt View Post
    I've got to ask......why backsawn.
    From the many hours reading posts on this forum, seems quartersawn is said to be more stable.
    And wouldn't backsawn give you some quartersawn too.

    Ok Dumb newby question, with many more to come.

    Cheers
    Andrew
    When you put nails/screws through the decking quartersawn splits, backsawn holds...

    flloring.JPG


    Whilst searching for that pic, I came across one of my first decking efforts...

    Gum top box.jpg

    This was 120x20mm gum top box that I had dressed all four faces (all through a single head planer/thicknesser) and arised the corners after trimming them to uniform width on the table saw. Including milling, each stick was picked up no less than 11 times before being ready to lay.

    Another different way I tried with decking was laying the rough sawn boards straight off the mill, but only arising the top two corners, this was 150x30 bluegum

    04012010(001).jpg
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

  16. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigidi View Post
    Including milling, each stick was picked up no less than 11 times before being ready to lay.
    Al

    A friend, who has just built his own house, was talking to me about making his flooring from rough sawn cyprus. The amount of handling operations in going to such a profile is not to be underestimated as you have so rightly identified.

    The size of the deck/floor becomes very significant.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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