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  1. #1
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    Default another horizontal bandsaw mill build

    Hi all,
    before committing energy, resources and money into an actual build of a horizontal bandsaw, I thought i'd best put the ideas/designs that are in my head onto paper (or at least into sketchup) and allow the experiences of forum members to collectively guide a better outcome in the final constructed unit. I attach some images from my current sketchup model. This model is by no means complete - for example, pulleys, v-belts, safety guards, tensioning mechanisms and the micro-adjustments to the wheel axles have not yet been built in the model.....however, ARE on the "to do" list and are very much part of elements to be included in this model and eventually in this build. I have spent a lot of time pouring over the youtube videos of numerous DIY and professional rigs. For obvious reasons the professional rigs are scant on revealing details - however, a lot can still be gleaned from available information. My hope too, is that while this thread may ultimately assist me in combining some of the best ideas from forum members together with my own - I hope it will add to the library of great resources found on this forum......oh!....and keep me motivated in getting this rig built!!

    The basics I am considering in my horizontal bandsaw unit are;
    -5.000m long bed X 1.000m wide
    -50X50 SHS welded/bolted mobile frame throughout
    -850mm max. cutting width between bearing guides
    -(1 inch dia.) square threaded acme rod (each side) elevating/lowering mechanism via sprockets and chain over top of frame. (possible winch drive in place of hand crank)
    -13 hp 4 stroke petrol motor with centrifugal clutch
    -2X 14inch (emergency car rims/tyres) - approx. 18 inch dia. with tyres
    -gravity fed water lubrication
    -adjustable blade guides/ bearing
    -adjustable wheel tensioning / toe in-out / up-down mechanism
    -v-groove rolling gate wheels and bearings to sit over 25X25 angle on top face of 100X50 RHS base frame
    -safety guards /cowlings continuous over both wheels and cutting blade area


    ........anyway.....your thoughts, comments suggestions??

    bandsaw-001.jpgbandsaw-002.jpgbandsaw-003.jpgbandsaw-004.jpgbandsaw-006.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  3. #2
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    Default

    szczepan

    That sounds fine in principle. It looks quite similar in some respects to my Laidlaw Bushmill. I would look at your main rails as I'm not sure 100 x 50 RHS will be enough to resist bending. It is good if you are on a concrete base, but if you plan on using it in the bush on uneven ground it may be a little light.

    The Laidlaw uses 200 x 100 RHS just for comparison, although that is over 6m compared to your 5m. The motor on mine for a similar cutting width is 16HP (I think I did say in other threads it is 14HP, but my memory let me down.)

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  4. #3
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    Default

    bushmiller, thanks for the advice....I've also thought that the main rails are a bit light....although its probably because I always considered milling large/heavy logs.....and it may very well be prudent to beef up those rails.....may rethink the sizing....(on the other hand)....the sizing may be ok if I decide to mount this whole unit (and rails) on a trailer config. in which case the doubling up of rails may very well do the trick...

  5. #4
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    Default

    I went down this same path, it took me several years to gather the Bits to Build mine. the hardest part was finding 2 space saver/Emergency spares the same size, I collected a total of 6 before I got a Pair. The other problem I had was calculating pulley size to get Correct band speed. Here is what I found out after Many hours of surfing the net.

    I have a 13 HP Chonda which runs at 3800 rpm full throttle , After looking at the net and speaking to several people I decided on a Blade speed of around 3400fpm. I chose this speed taking into account that by slowing the blade speed would give me more torque from the 13 Hp motor.

    I am using Nissan Skyline Spacesaver Spares which are 21" in dia

    To calculate the Pulley sizes I used the Following Formulas

    RPM of Bandwheel = Blade Speed/Wheel Circumference

    Wheel Circumference=( Wheel Dia x 3.14 )/12
    = (21"x3.14)/12
    = 5.5 ft

    Therefore RPM of Bandwheel = 3400fpm/5.5
    = 618 rpm


    To achieve this I used a 3 1/4 " pulley on the motor and 20" Pulley on the Bandwheel Shaft

    Bandwheel RPM= Motor Speed * ( Drive Pulley/Driven Pulley)

    = 3800 *(3.25/20)
    = 617 rpm

    The construction of my Mill is along the same lines as you Sketches, except I use a braked boat winch to raise and lower the Carriage. I chose this over the Acme thread as it is faster to raise and Lower.
    Attached are a couple of photos.

    I got a great sense of satisfaction from building my mill and even a greater sense of satisfaction in watching the slabs come off. Good luck in building yours It will be well worth the effort.

    Cheers,
    Jon

    Blade Tensioner.JPGDrive Wheel.JPGOverall 3.JPGOverall_2.JPGWheel Tracking Adjustment.JPG

  6. #5
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    Default

    Jon,
    many thanks for the comments and the photos. Its really hard to find good photos of the tensioning toe/in-out elements. there are so many varying ways of achieving the same results in this aspect....and it is the main item I want to get built the right way! I've managed to get a big start on most of the components as I recently sold my Vicmarc lathe (through this forum) to fund the build. So far I've managed to get all the steel, both emergency tyres, all the rolling gear, bearings, axles etc....but waiting on the motor, pulleys, centrifugal clutch and square threaded rod. those will happen shortly.
    I do appreciate the photos you've added. do you get any significant vibrations around the tensioning/ toe in-out elements? as there are many adjustable components - something can very easily get loose and create some dramas...

    I appreciate the calculations - I will do the same to max. the torgue available from the motor and select the correct pulley sizes.....

    again, thanks for these images and experiences from your build.
    szczepan

  7. #6
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    Jon,
    is there any magic number ie. saw blade speed that is seen as being the "best" or "optimal" speed to be used on these bandsaws? Does it come down to the type of blade you use (for determining speed)...or does it relate to the type of log the machine will generally be cutting?? I ask this as you've mentioned 3400rpm as the speed of the blade in your case - I assume this is running your engine on full noise??

  8. #7
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    Default

    The Measurement I mentioned was Feet per Minute not Revs per Minute ,As far as I am Aware there is no Magic Speed as such, The only advice I got was to run the blade as slow as possible that you do not cause undue heating of the band, without making it that slow that you start to get chatter and vibration in the cut. The 3400 fpm is working OK for me, I did see info on some US blades that mention speeds of 5500 fpm. I have been cutting QLD Hardwoods with my mill using 1 1/4" Bi metal Blades. The current Set-up is working well, The motor did labor a little bit when I cut 650mm wide Bluegum slabs but I expected this. The Bandmill cuts heaps faster that using a CSM. Prior to building the bandmill I was using a Rail style CSM. I can slab a log much quicker now with a lot more recovery and less effort. I am wrapped with the success of my Mill.

    One piece of Advice when Using the Space saver Spares, I ground off some of the Tread in front of the Band to allow for the set of the Teeth to hang in this Area. If you don't do this the Tyre will take the set off the inside of the Blade and the Blade will dive severely in the Log. An angle grinder with a 40 Grit Sanding Pad works OK, The neighbors will probably think you are doing Burnouts as the Smell of Burnt rubber and Smoke will be quite bad while you are doing this. I took the wheels down to the local Tyre Place and got them balanced after I had ground the Front off the Tyre.
    If you would like any more photo's of my mill, let me know and I will take them for you.


    My mill cutting Budgeroo


    DIY Bandmill Outback QLD Australia - YouTube

  9. #8
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    Default

    newjon.......just wondering...where would be the best place to find a reasonably priced 16-18 inch grooved v-belt pulley for the "driven" end of the equation?? looks like these large animals are pretty rare?? for a reasonable price that is.....

    ps.. the parts have started to arrive - just waiting on the motor now....will post an image of the gear that goes into making these rigs....or at leats the components that I will be using.

  10. #9
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    Default ok....its started....

    its underway now....I was really hanging out to get my hands on a steel cut off saw and secondly on a decent mig welder. ....images of some of the components...but also.....a few pics of the main frame that is starting to come together....



    anyway....finally....is started!!!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by szczepan4069 View Post
    Jon,
    is there any magic number ie. saw blade speed that is seen as being the "best" or "optimal" speed to be used on these bandsaws? Does it come down to the type of blade you use (for determining speed)...or does it relate to the type of log the machine will generally be cutting?? I ask this as you've mentioned 3400rpm as the speed of the blade in your case - I assume this is running your engine on full noise??
    The magic number for any cutting blade is a compromise between how long the cutting edge (blade teeth) lasts and how fast the work is done (removing wood from the kerf) there are other factors like hardness of material, feed rate, type of teeth (TC/ HSS) green or dry wood, tension in blade, power source type (hp and tourqe) and fatigue in the body of the blade band.

    Ideally you want the blade speed to go a gizillion mph and never go blunt

    Basically a fast blade speed allows you to remove mat'l faster (make lots of cuts) the downside is the blade will be more likely to go blunt in less time than if it was at slower speed, fast blade speed requires more power, fast blade speed means the blade is subjected to more fatigue cycles of bending/straightening, fast blade speed in a hard mat'l is a quick way to blunt sharp teeth, having a feed rate that is too slow will blunt teeth, if you want high production go with high blade speed and be prepared to sharpen the blade more often, if you want your teeth to last a bit longer go for less blade speed.

    My workshop BS travels at just under 6000fpm which is getting up there, looking at newjon's machine would seem to indicate that 3200fpm is a good compromise speed to run at.



    Pete

  12. #11
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    Pete

    There is another crucial factor and that is heat. The teeth on a bandsaw reach very high temperatures, particularly on wide cuts. Luckily for a miller out in the bush it is possible, actually essential, to direct cooling water to the blade at entry and exit points of the timber. In fact the circular saws also use cooling water to prevent the blade hogging for similar reasons.

    In your workshop this is not a practical option because of the mess, but not an issue out in the bush. Quite apart from the sharpness aspect the blade has to stay cool to remain straight in the cut. If the teeth heat up the blade expands at the cutting edge. Once that happens the blade is no longer held in tension and is free to wander all over the place resulting in the dreaded bandsaw wave.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  13. #12
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    Pete and Paul,
    thanks for all the additional information....there are so many minute details to consider....especially at the business end of the project.....the speed (fpm), the blade type etc...will be the difference in making the project a success or not. so I will be keen to keep you updated on progress....thanks again

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Pete

    There is another crucial factor and that is heat. The teeth on a bandsaw reach very high temperatures, particularly on wide cuts. Luckily for a miller out in the bush it is possible, actually essential, to direct cooling water to the blade at entry and exit points of the timber. In fact the circular saws also use cooling water to prevent the blade hogging for similar reasons.

    In your workshop this is not a practical option because of the mess, but not an issue out in the bush. Quite apart from the sharpness aspect the blade has to stay cool to remain straight in the cut. If the teeth heat up the blade expands at the cutting edge. Once that happens the blade is no longer held in tension and is free to wander all over the place resulting in the dreaded bandsaw wave.

    Regards
    Paul
    Hi Paul,
    Does the cooling/water also help to control the buildup of resin on the blade? with a dry blade when cutting green (not all timbers tho) resin buildup can be an issue, from rough surface finish to blade direction issues, I have added brushes to help keep this under control.


    Pete

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjt View Post
    Hi Paul,
    Does the cooling/water also help to control the buildup of resin on the blade? with a dry blade when cutting green (not all timbers tho) resin buildup can be an issue, from rough surface finish to blade direction issues, I have added brushes to help keep this under control.


    Pete
    Pete

    Most certainly it does.

    In fact there are two controls to keep the blade clean. My bandsaw has scrapers on each wheel. This is possible with my machine because they are aluminium wheels with no rubber tyre. The srapers are spring loaded and are made of a similar material to electrical circuit boards.

    The second is the water. I add a water softener (borax powder) and a little kitchen detergent (washing up liquid; whatever type you can pinch from under the kitchen sink ).

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  16. #15
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    steady progress now.....this weekend I was pretty much getting the main elements figured out, level, vertical and exactly spaced so that I can get sliding movement without any of the "sticking" that is associated with the vertical slide posts and also the saw blade tightening mechanism on the free wheel (as per the heavy 6.5mm thick SHS slide rails). a few images of where I am at....oh yeah.....I've decided i'll go with a 12V electric winch to drive the vertical lift mechanisms....last action for the day I started on the acme thread housing for each side of the vertical slide posts.....ps ...the welding is coming along....BUT I am NO welder.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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