Thread: Ironbark rounds, split and square posts

Hey Damo,

the going rate around Brissy is pretty good, depending on how good the posts are.

What kind of GOS square posts you thinking of cutting?

G'Day Sigidi,

I'm gonna have to be a newb here and ask what GOS means? I'll pretty much be looking at the size I can get out of the tree so could be 100-200mm square or a custom size if requested. I'm looking at getting a chainsaw mini mill to carve it up where it lies due to the limited access around the block.

If you know of a good place around Brissy to get a mini mill let me know. At the moment it looks like ill have to import one depending on shipping prices.

Cheers

Originally Posted by DamianD

G'Day Sigidi,

I'm gonna have to be a newb here and ask what GOS means? I'll pretty much be looking at the size I can get out of the tree so could be 100-200mm square or a custom size if requested. I'm looking at getting a chainsaw mini mill to carve it up where it lies due to the limited access around the block.

If you know of a good place around Brissy to get a mini mill let me know. At the moment it looks like ill have to import one depending on shipping prices.

Cheers

G.O.S means 'GREEN OFF SAW'..as far as milling Ironbark with a small chainsaw mill is concerned,you are a very brave man..the money for hardwood timber isn't flash at all,i would be getting firm orders before i put blade to log..Be mindful that milling hardwoods is just that..HARD'...and also heavy to handle and transport,i can't understand why more money isn't offered for them ...get yourself a mill that will comfortably mill them,and an offsider or two to help..otherwise your back will turn to chalk ...incidently,after boxing the heart,you need bloody good logs to get 100mm-200mm square sections out of...Cheers MM

Damo, yep GOS is green off saw, used often in the industry to say the 'state' the timber is in once it's cut. So the log is green, freshly dropped and the timber is green freshly milled, nothing has even sat to air dry.

People kinda expect splits to be GOS and rounds would typically be green (folkes like the look of the timber when the fence goes in) funny thing, I've found if I've got two piles of splits, one pile cut 6 months ago and its started to grey out, but the other pile was cut yesterday, they will buy the posts cut yesterday

With posts, you can't box a 100mm post, absolute minimum you can box is 175mm by grading rules, and tbh if you are going to that kind of effort (c/s mill) you don't want to be selling them for landscape grade. You would be wanting to get structural grade money.

If you are cool with felling, have you thought of doing the cut and snig yourself and selling log off? you get some$'s for the cut and snig, plus also dollars as 'royalty' on the volume of log sold. This way you don't need to buy a mill, don't need to find customers for the timber and more importantly don't need to transport and don't have someone felling on your block

Originally Posted by Sigidi

plus also dollars as 'royalty' on the volume of log sold. Ttimber

Wouldn't be selling logs to ANY of the mills,as they pay sweet nothing,and generally want only the premium part of the tree(butt log)..i am presently milling on a property,where loggers have previously been,and milling all the stuff that they have left behind..they left the property in an absolute mess,payed stuff all for the logs($80 a cube...WHAT A JOKE!!),and made the landowner very upset...sometimes i am ashamed to be part of this industry ,some of the bigger mills need a good...MM

DamienD,

Make sure your familiar with your State's laws around Private Native Forestry, in NSW it took 2 years for us to come to an agreement with the State Govt around what areas could and couldn't be harvested only to discover as Mapleman points out that Hardwood timber is grossly undervalued for what it is. It breaks my heart that in many circumstances a beautiful straight 60 year old tree isn't worth the bother of harvesting to the property owner but sits in Bunnings as floorboards for $3K a cubic metre. Fenceposts are probably a good way to do it, minimal equipment required and a pretty good return.

Also if you have some nice straight timber have a look at the market for poles, there is minimal work that needs to be put in and as long as the transport isn't too far you can get top dollar for them.

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

G.O.S means 'GREEN OFF SAW'..as far as milling Ironbark with a small chainsaw mill is concerned,you are a very brave man..the money for hardwood timber isn't flash at all,i would be getting firm orders before i put blade to log..Be mindful that milling hardwoods is just that..HARD'...and also heavy to handle and transport,i can't understand why more money isn't offered for them ...get yourself a mill that will comfortably mill them,and an offsider or two to help..otherwise your back will turn to chalk ...incidently,after boxing the heart,you need bloody good logs to get 100mm-200mm square sections out of...Cheers MM

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

...incidently,after boxing the heart,you need bloody good logs to get 100mm-200mm square sections out of...Cheers MM

G'Day Mapleman,

I was thinking of cutting 200-300mm diameter logs without piping and squaring them of to 100-200mm for nice feature fence posts. Big logs with piping I was going to cut for split posts and smaller logs with piping I was going to leave as rounds or stays for rural fencing. Would this be acceptable?

Originally Posted by DamianD

G'Day Mapleman,

I was thinking of cutting 200-300mm diameter logs without piping and squaring them of to 100-200mm for nice feature fence posts. Big logs with piping I was going to cut for split posts and smaller logs with piping I was going to leave as rounds or stays for rural fencing. Would this be acceptable?

Hi Damien,give Brod Garde(Brodski on the forum) a ring (GardeTimbers),he is in Bribane and retails in hardwoods(flooring,posts etc),and may be interested in what you offer..some of the bigger logs may be ideal for milling into 3x2's,or larger sections..good luck..MM

Ok cheers. I sent him a PM.

Thanks for your help everyone .

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Wouldn't be selling logs to ANY of the mills,as they pay sweet nothing,and generally want only the premium part of the tree(butt log)..i am presently milling on a property,where loggers have previously been,and milling all the stuff that they have left behind..they left the property in an absolute mess,payed stuff all for the logs($80 a cube...WHAT A JOKE!!),and made the landowner very upset...sometimes i am ashamed to be part of this industry ,some of the bigger mills need a good...MM

Royalty rates depend on a number of factors. Size and type and number of logs in a particular block, nature of the terrain they're coming from, distance to the mill etc etc. Ultimately however the overriding factor determining royalty is the value of the final product less the cost of production, of which royalty is only a small part. Between fuel, electricity (both of which have gone through the roof in recent years as we all know), wages, workers comp, EPA licensing for the treatment plant, the cost of milling equipment, the cost of infrastructure, the cost of transporting logs in and finished product out etc etc hardwood sawmilling in this country isn't a particularly attractive investment.
Then we have to compete with imported products with lower cost bases, the shift to pine as it's cheaper to build with it, no resource security, and a general lack of demand due to the nations economic woes. People build houses differently now then they did 20 years ago, and not being able to sell short 3x2 studs for instance pushes the cost of producing the products that do get used - long 6 x 2's and flooring say - up.

I agree with you somewhat. It's a joke that royalty rates are basicly unchanged for the last ten years. But if there's anyone in the hardwood sector in this country thats making the equivalent of bank interest on their investment I'd be suprised. Like you, I try and do the right thing by our log suppliers both in terms of the price we pay for logs and certainly in terms of the condition we leave the place in behind us. But the reality of sawmilling is that the quickest way to make a million dollars is to start with two million, and in terms of ROI $80 a cube for basicly watching the things grow isn't that bad. In the last year I've paid royalty ranging from $50 to $150 a cube for hardwood scantling logs... the main variable being on harvesting and transport costs rather then quality. Saying trees should be worth a lot because hardwood flooring at retail is expensive is like saying that sand should have value because windows do.

I tell ya MM... sometimes I think if I had any sense at all I'd either up camp and shift internationally or just shut down, be a bank johnny or something, and play sawmills on weekends.

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Wouldn't be selling logs to ANY of the mills,as they pay sweet nothing,and generally want only the premium part of the tree(butt log)..i am presently milling on a property,where loggers have previously been,and milling all the stuff that they have left behind..they left the property in an absolute mess,payed stuff all for the logs($80 a cube...WHAT A JOKE!!),and made the landowner very upset...sometimes i am ashamed to be part of this industry ,some of the bigger mills need a good...MM

$80 per cube for logs - they may have been lower quality, or yeah the guy may have been dodgey, but I don't know any other 'manufacturing industry where the raw product costs half the price you can get for the timber. After factoring the recovery rate of logs and not even adding in cutting costs. At $200 per log cube and recovery rate of 38-40% when you sell the timber for $800 per cube sawn, its a very expensive raw product

Damo, you are best using 200mm logs as rounds. A good quality structural 100x100 is about $27/m (but no heart) and you need to cut it, a 200mm round post is about $35 and you only have to dock the ends to length.
300mm is JUST big enough to get a boxed 200x200mm post, but it depends on how much you are getting for it, to rip a 300mm billet into posts will give you 4 split posts at $10-12 each you have a lot less set up time for splits and they are lot less finiky to push out - happily do 100 a day,but won't be so easy to get that amount of good 200x200mm pushed out in the day and most ppl only want 2-4 200x200mm posts but ppl want 100's+of split posts - just a thought

Excellent advice Sigidi cheers . Ill definitely be using your advice as a guide. Questions: can I sell rounds with piping? And what's the best way to get the bark off of ironbark? I only have a chainsaw MS391 Sthil Farm Boss.

Cheers

Originally Posted by DamianD

Excellent advice Sigidi cheers . Ill definitely be using your advice as a guide. Questions: can I sell rounds with piping? And what's the best way to get the bark off of ironbark? I only have a chainsaw MS391 Sthil Farm Boss.

Cheers

Pipe, shouldn't be bad in a round, but within limits. A 200mm round I wouldn't like to sell with more than an inch and half pipe at the biggest end and hopefully tapers out to nothing at other end, but we can't control mother nature. You may take a little hit on price if they all have pipe both ends but its still worth it.

De-barking - hard work! Nah if you get them felled a few weeks into winter and bark them as they fall it will be a piece of cake. Barking now will be an SOB and it needs to be done so borer/bugs don't lay under the bark and begin to chew out your sapwood. Splits you may be able to bark after ripping them out. There is a knack to it and you on't use your saw, that will mark your posts - things I've used in the past...iron bar, back of axe head, post hole shovel, but now I've made myself some barking bars, don't have any pics of them but they are made from a section of leaf springs welded to a length of pipe and the end is then ground to a sharp edge.

Chainsaw - you will need something much bigger to rip posts, I use a Husky 395xp as my post ripping saw.

Originally Posted by DamianD

Hi all,

I'm after some advice about harvesting Ironbark from my property 4 hrs west of Brisbane. I have 100 hectares of bush with a lot of red Ironbark, some Red Gum and a tonne of pine. Basically I need to make a bit cash to sustain me until my business kicks off.

So my questions are:

Who would be interested in buying rounds, split posts and square ironbark posts (green)?
Is it possible to find a buyer for small amounts because I can only carry 1-2 tonne at a time back to brisbane (northern suburbs)?
Where can find the going rate?

Any advice is always appreciated.

Cheers
Damo

Damo

Lots of good advice already given.

Some things to consider are: How strong are you?

In other words Ironbark is one of the heavier timbers around, especially green. A 200mm round post, which could be used for an inline strainer post for farm fencing will weigh around 90Kg. A 300mm round post suitable for a corner strainer will be about 200kg +.

You are going to need a means of moving this type of material about and you need access, which we have not yet discussed.

I would suggest farm fencing material is your cheapest option in the first instance as it requires no specialised equipment to kick off. Also there is always a ready market for farm fencing material providing we are not in the middle of a drought.Your existing chainsaw will suffice while ever you are only cross cutting. As soon as you start ripping a heavier saw with grunt will become essential for any significant quantities.

Just be aware that you are not going to make a fortune. It will bring in a few dollars.

Just returning to my facetious "strength" comment, there is no mileage in doing things manually. Lifting machinery is a must. A muscular strain/injury prevents you earning an income and there is much misery to boot.

On the subject of debarking Ironbark you should do it immediately. Don't even drop five trees and go back to the first one. Debark as you go. Leave the tree for a single day and it will be a couple of years or more before the bark will come off. At times if the sap is not running freely Iron bark can still be difficult. I did exactly what you are talking about for a few weeks many years ago. The bark would come off one tree in a sheet and the tree next to it would come off in pieces the size of your hand and take an hour to complete.

To sumarise, farm fencing materials may be your easiest market, although arguably not the most lucrative. Corner strainer posts, in line strainer posts and split posts will all be relatively easy: Just heavy to lift . On the last one, the split posts check to see if your Ironbark splits easily before counting chickens.

I would add that none of this precludes other timber activities (including firewood during the winter from the canopy material) if the opportunity presents itself.

Regards
Paul