Thread: Ironbark rounds, split and square posts

Originally Posted by Madjek Valley

Hello all, this is my first post here so I will introduce myself. We have 100 acres of steep rocky ground, 45 mins from Brisbane CBD. This is covered in tall straight spotted gum and iron bark. I saw Damo's post and realised he was asking the same questions that I have been. We are governed by native forest practices here, so I started looking at who wants to buy my selected harvest wood. So far it seems that it is easy to sell as long as you set your hourly rate at $2.50 and have a job to support your family. That is unless you like woodwork, and do all the value add yourself. This is what prompted my title above, and what my enquiries have told me. I can relate to a lot of the comments in the thread here, I have started making 200mm square ironbark posts for the little house yard. I have a number of dozer pushed timber piles from the road being cut up the hill and house clearing, so far I have been docking lengths to put through my saw mill, 2.7m ironbark log 250-350mm SED (small end diameter) are enough fun to take up the hill with the skid steer on a 20 deg slope. (great place for a skid steer rolling competition).
On the bark removal, years ago my dad went bush and when we felled gums we would beat the bark off with the back of an axe, my timber piles have been sitting for about 6 years, the ironbarks typically have no bark or sap wood left, as soon as you saw off the flitch to square the log there is no consequence to laying in the dirt and waiting. easy if you have time. Can anyone suggest how to get the ironbark off successfully? I see the comment about doing it right away, but using what method?
thank you

MV

Interesting first post. Well done.

If you have a skid steer loader, as soon as the tree is felled, drive the loader at an angle to the log and using a corner of the bucket drive along the length of the log. This works best on larger logs as they are more likely to stay put, but if you jam small logs against something it should work for them too. The bark should come off relatively easily.

Manual methods include hitting the bark with the back of an axe and then bashing the bark off at an angle. Some people "open" the bark with criss cross cuts down the length or run the chain saw down the length. A small crowbar can also be used to pry off bark. I think Sigidi was talking about making up a bar for this purpose. often two small bars used together can be useful.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Madjek Valley

Hello all, this is my first post here so I will introduce myself. We have 100 acres of steep rocky ground, 45 mins from Brisbane CBD. This is covered in tall straight spotted gum and iron bark. I saw Damo's post and realised he was asking the same questions that I have been. We are governed by native forest practices here, so I started looking at who wants to buy my selected harvest wood. So far it seems that it is easy to sell as long as you set your hourly rate at $2.50 and have a job to support your family. That is unless you like woodwork, and do all the value add yourself. This is what prompted my title above, and what my enquiries have told me. I can relate to a lot of the comments in the thread here, I have started making 200mm square ironbark posts for the little house yard. I have a number of dozer pushed timber piles from the road being cut up the hill and house clearing, so far I have been docking lengths to put through my saw mill, 2.7m ironbark log 250-350mm SED (small end diameter) are enough fun to take up the hill with the skid steer on a 20 deg slope. (great place for a skid steer rolling competition).
On the bark removal, years ago my dad went bush and when we felled gums we would beat the bark off with the back of an axe, my timber piles have been sitting for about 6 years, the ironbarks typically have no bark or sap wood left, as soon as you saw off the flitch to square the log there is no consequence to laying in the dirt and waiting. easy if you have time. Can anyone suggest how to get the ironbark off successfully? I see the comment about doing it right away, but using what method?
thank you

Okay, a couple of points here.
How tall is tall? And how much girth? The best money in the timber game is in long poles, as in electrical tramsmission line poles. The specification is quite tight, as set out in AS 2209-1994 Timber - Poles for Overhead Lines however if you can meet it they can be quite lucrative. The best money of course being in the longer lengths.
Next point. Forestry on freehold land in Queensland is broadly speaking conducted in line with the code of practice for conducting a native forest practice on freehold land, which was introduced around about 2005. Here's the thing... it's a code of practice, not an act of legislation. Broadly speaking it's not worth the paper it's written on in terms of enforcement by the crown in a court of law. You can't be charged with an offence under the code, but where they can get you is under the Vegetation Management Act, or under the Waterways Act if you put a creek crossing in, or somewhere. They can make your life miserable but mostly - provided you dont start into creeks, which remain the property of the Crown even under freehold title, or start wholesale broadacre clearing - you can tell them to go get... whatever. You're freehold. You have undisputed title to those trees. You own them, and you can kill them and dispose of them as you see fit. The laws of the State of Queensland expressly state you have those rights.
Just dont kill them in waterways, dont fall them into waterways, and dont go hooking two D9's together with 600 foot of chain.

Like Paul said, I've debarked with my bobcat before - the day the tree's came down and we (between Weisyboy and I) debarked this load in about an hour....

WP_000544.jpg

All fairly small diameter stuff for round posts.Worked well, but took a bit of adjusting to work out how to best use the bucket, I have teeth on my bucket, Carl has a flat edged bucket, it was really a matter of getting on the machine and doing it. Some I managed to run the bucket tooth along the top, open it up, then pick the log up as high as I could (remembering they where about 8m long) and drop it so one end landed first and it kind of 'bounced' out of its bark. I've seen tractors use the ligsof their tyres to chew the bark off before.

With barking bars you tend to use two and work them against each other, working your way 'under the bark'. I had some older ironbark I needed to debark and had to smack it with the back of the axe. Was around 300mm dia and needed to hit it all the way down its length down 6 parallel lines before it got loose enough for the bark to come off.

Other method using back of axe, you can use glancing blows on the edge to 'fold' back an opening to begin the process, try to use the barks natural structure to your advantage. Ironbark has deep furrows, try and follow the edge of the furrow. I try not to use the chainsaw as it is all too easy to go right through the bark and you scar the post underneath.

It really is something you have to get into to understand and not for the occasional worker - its bloody hard to bust off old ironbark bark. I've got some billets sitting here that must be close to 8-12 months old, if I felt like doing the work (which again is bloody hard) I'd take a video for you to show some of the technique, but maybe if/when I HAVE to bark these for an order I'll do a vid, but I try to avoid debarking or do it straight away

Hi Folks, thank you for the input on the barking process. To answer the height and girth question, I have 7 old trees that I won't touch as they are perhaps worth more to me to show my boys what a big tree looked like, these are typically over 1 metre in diameter. I have a couple of log trucks full of spotted gums that are 60-80cm in diameter at the stump cut, I am not good at guessing the height, dad did tell me how to calculate it from using an analogue watch and the length of shadow but I can't remember enough of it. Best guess would a range of 10 to 20m tall as a saw log. I will post some picks soon.
Does anyone have anything to add about earning the most from each kilo of wood? What are power poles sold for at the farm gate? I did hear that Vic rail was purchasing spotted gum sleepers at the farm gate but I have not successfully followed up on that.
thank you

Originally Posted by Madjek Valley

I am not good at guessing the height, dad did tell me how to calculate it from using an analogue watch and the length of shadow but I can't remember enough of it.

Place a stick in the ground & measure its height, then measure its shadow lenght & calculate the ratio. Then do the reverse with the tree by measuring the shadow, then apply the same ratio to calcuate the tree height. Needs to be done within a short time frame and best done mid morning or mid afternoon, not 12noon.

cheers,
Dean.

Originally Posted by Madjek Valley

Hi Folks, thank you for the input on the barking process. To answer the height and girth question, I have 7 old trees that I won't touch as they are perhaps worth more to me to show my boys what a big tree looked like, these are typically over 1 metre in diameter. I have a couple of log trucks full of spotted gums that are 60-80cm in diameter at the stump cut, I am not good at guessing the height, dad did tell me how to calculate it from using an analogue watch and the length of shadow but I can't remember enough of it. Best guess would a range of 10 to 20m tall as a saw log. I will post some picks soon.
Does anyone have anything to add about earning the most from each kilo of wood? What are power poles sold for at the farm gate? I did hear that Vic rail was purchasing spotted gum sleepers at the farm gate but I have not successfully followed up on that.
thank you

Hey MV, I get regular pole price updates from a buyer. The prices though are for delivered, so even though the buyer will even come to you fell, snig, debark and load the logs, your return will be that price minus their costs. Transport costs are going to be there no matter what you do and your distance from them makes a big difference. To give you an example (bear in mind this is NSW) a 20m pole between 450 and 550mm with good form (there are all sorts of rules about this) will get you somewhere between $500 and $650 a pole. The upsides are that if you a comfortable felling trees then the rest is pretty easy to do yourself. The downside is there is a reason poles give you a good return and that's cos trees that pass master are hard to find, you'll be picking the very best of your trees out of the bush to get a truckload.

I'm pretty new to all of this so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Originally Posted by crowash

Hey MV, I get regular pole price updates from a buyer. The prices though are for delivered, so even though the buyer will even come to you fell, snig, debark and load the logs, your return will be that price minus their costs. Transport costs are going to be there no matter what you do and your distance from them makes a big difference. To give you an example (bear in mind this is NSW) a 20m pole between 450 and 550mm with good form (there are all sorts of rules about this) will get you somewhere between $500 and $650 a pole. The upsides are that if you a comfortable felling trees then the rest is pretty easy to do yourself. The downside is there is a reason poles give you a good return and that's cos trees that pass master are hard to find, you'll be picking the very best of your trees out of the bush to get a truckload.

I'm pretty new to all of this so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Thanks Crowash

Good to hear some indication of price.

Regards
Paul

A while ago Dale and Myers sawyers, based outta Tiaro had a PDF on their website with pole pricing and specs - might still be there if ya wanted to have a look. something to think about with poles they want them de-barked and in such a way it doesn't score/bruise the outer sapwood - so no using a blade on machinery, no chainsaw etc. also (apparently - info from customers, so not firsthand info) they need to be sprayed with a chemical when barked, before pick up

Al

Details are still there. 8m poles to 23m poles .

Products

Regards
Paul

Good onya paul - I didn't have much time this morning before heading off to get cooked like a lobster today - feeling very, very slow from todays roasting