Thread: Lucas mill hourly rate ??

Your charge per hour would need to be based on your proficiency. Cube rate would be an option provided you're not chasing logs around the paddock and you have a reliable feed.
To give you a bit of an idea, between $100 to $150 per hour or $200 to $250 per cube. The cube rate does need to be subject to delays, as onsite milling can often be punctuated with obstructions.

Originally Posted by rustynail

Your charge per hour would need to be based on your proficiency. Cube rate would be an option provided you're not chasing logs around the paddock and you have a reliable feed.
To give you a bit of an idea, between $100 to $150 per hour or $200 to $250 per cube. The cube rate does need to be subject to delays, as onsite milling can often be punctuated with obstructions.

Totally dependant on proficiency - machine doesn't do much good on its own or with a bad operator pushin it

Hi there.

I feel it is better to mill on an hourly rate so that the end product is not compromised by hast, especially with furniture timbers. To get the very best out of a log, in particular bigger logs, it takes time, experience and a careful eye for reading the log. I always believe that an increased recovery of good quality timber justifies the extra cost of milling it. When cutting slabs, it takes a lot longer to produce a decent volume. For example, we just finished milling a 25 tonne burled log of my own, 6-8 feet in diameter, and took two blokes 6 full days to mill it. If someone had milled it on a per cube rate, they would be broke. But taking the time to produce premium slabs and packs of boards in matched sets will justify the labour investment.

On the other hand, if you simply had a few semi loads of down grade logs to smash into larger dimension sleepers and posts, a per cube rate might be better. However, a per cube rate cutting 1" material would have to be higher than a cube rate for cutting 2" material, due to the greater amount of work in producing the same volume.

Some basic things you can advise your client on to reduce their milling costs are make sure the logs are clean, free of dirt and rocks, logs are easily accessible, have some decent horsepower around to handle the logs and minimise setup time, provide their own labour and assistance. On an hourly rate, the customers priority should be keeping you milling, and you can advise them on the job how to make the process as efficient as possible. If the client wishes to assist, you nearly have to become their boss and crack the whip a bit. They will thank you in the end if you do it the right way, by ending up with a good stack of quality timber in a timely manner.

Cheers

James

Depends on the los, and depends on the customer.
Cube rate (for us 250/m3 for us) is fair enough if you're organised and you've got the gear to handle logs and get through them fast. It's fair on you if you get throughput, it's fair on the customer it you don't. Measure the logs, factor in a few things like are they good logs, what size he wants off them, is this likely to result in more business on a regular basis - either ongoing work or log supply, do you need the work, do you need to get established and build a rep yada yada yada.
Slabbing though I would not do except on an hourly rate. Too slow, too many variables. Actually unless it's one hell of a good tree I just don't slab anymore, and would rather buy the log and get what I get. The only issues I've ever had contract milling (customer not totally satisfied) have been slab related - who needs the headaches???

Hi, it is a bit tricky to work out what to charge. I feel I don't charge enough but for the moment are happy while trying to build up business.

I prefer to work on a cubic meter rate. $300 per cubic meter of sawn & stacked timber. I always visit the job first before agreeing to it and that gives me a chance to agree on a different method if more suitable. ( small jobs, steep site etc.) I do have a minimum charge of $500.

Advantages:

• Cubic meter rate allows me to take the time I need (especially when I was still learning) to cut a quality timber me and the customer is happy with.
• It is easy to understand by customers and they seem to prefer to know what the timber is going to cost them vs. buying the timber.
• Me being more efficient helps me. (bringing loader or hire off-sider)
• I'm being in control of stacking and that way can make sure timber will turn out better, leaving happier customer.
• No timekeeping needed, just work out how much timber is stacked at the end off the job.

I found that cutting 1" boards or 10" beams doesn't make much of a difference at the end of the day when it comes to cubic meters cut. The one takes more time milling the other is harder and takes longer on the handling site of things. On average it works out pretty similar.

The times I do work on hourly rate is usually when customer wants to assist. This way how much they help (or say they are gonna help but doesn't end up happening) has no influence on my rate. ($75 per hour). This would also be the rate if I had to do much additional work besides turning a pile of logs into a stack of timber. Most customers don't want me to stack if I'm on a hourly rate.

Having said this, I haven't got a slabber so prices are based on max. 10" boards (if a customer wants me to do 250 -500mm boards, that's on a hourly rate)

Good luck with it!

Originally Posted by John.G

Depends on the los, and depends on the customer.
Cube rate (for us 250/m3 for us) is fair enough if you're organised and you've got the gear to handle logs and get through them fast. It's fair on you if you get throughput, it's fair on the customer it you don't. Measure the logs, factor in a few things like are they good logs, what size he wants off them, is this likely to result in more business on a regular basis - either ongoing work or log supply, do you need the work, do you need to get established and build a rep yada yada yada.
Slabbing though I would not do except on an hourly rate. Too slow, too many variables. Actually unless it's one hell of a good tree I just don't slab anymore, and would rather buy the log and get what I get. The only issues I've ever had contract milling (customer not totally satisfied) have been slab related - who needs the headaches???

Why does it depend on the logs and the customer? does that mean if the customer has a BMW it is more and if they have a bashed up sigma, price is less?
How does log quality affect the price? you cut the best logs first and use the lower grade logs if you have to, but neither you nor the customer have any control over log quality, so that shouldn't make a difference on price?
If you need the work??? so if you are busy the price is more, if you are quiet, less???

Doesn't sound right IMHO

I did put a reply up there before Rustynail, but somehow lost it...

$250 Cubic metre rate for sawblade for me.
20% Small board excess for converting whole logs into 1" stock or less than 6 sq"
$150 Hourly rate for slabber.
$60 Hourly rate for any bobcat use
If they help or don't help, no difference.
Customer pays for blade damage and chain damage
Fee for moving the mill
Hourly rate to 'get logs into dump' if needed
Travel fee if more than 30min drive, extra if taking bobcat

At the end of the job I reserve the right to negate any of the above fees, for instance if the blade has been used for 25 cube already and gets trashed, I won't charge. If I need bobcat back at home in between a job, I won't charge moving bob back and forth. If I'm pulling 1" boards off the sides, but not converting whole logs, I won't charge.

Having said all this, I feel these are the very top end of prices in the industry and I justify my charges because I know my stuff and back myself getting every stick of usable timber out of their logs. I'll get more than most and take great pain in ensuring no-one will get higher recovery of decent, usable timber on the customers list. I pride myself in how well maintained my gear is and how well I use 'their' resource to give the customer the best possible product they can get from the mill (the log humps in the middle, I WILL see it and I WILL re dress that face even if it's less than 2mm so they get boards as true to desired thickness as possible) I won't fall back on the full extent of allowances in grading ie. 6mm variance in timber dimension.
I know it sounds like I'm up myself, but I take my responsibility on the customers logs seriously and make every effort to give them the best product they can have.
I am very passionate about my sawmilling as most of you know, so I'll withdraw to my corner now.....

Another fair method of pricing for slabbing is per cut. This can't be a set rate as width and length will vary from log to log, but an agreed figure times length and width of log.
An important factor for millers to bear in mind is the need to remain honorable to the trade. Over the years many scams and ripoffs have been perpetrated in the timber industry, but these have all been at a point of sale level, not by the sawyer. As Sigidi has so proudly pointed out, his commitment to providing the best service he can without compromise, should be the motto for every miller.
Success is but a fleeting moment
Failure is a life long curse
Mediocre's not an option
Carelessness is even worse.

Originally Posted by Sigidi

Why does it depend on the logs and the customer? does that mean if the customer has a BMW it is more and if they have a bashed up sigma, price is less?
How does log quality affect the price? you cut the best logs first and use the lower grade logs if you have to, but neither you nor the customer have any control over log quality, so that shouldn't make a difference on price?
If you need the work??? so if you are busy the price is more, if you are quiet, less???

If I am asked to quote on a job and the guy has for arguments sake 20m3 to put through... that might be 20 small ironbark billets. Or it could be three Qld maples. Or a single billet of grey satinash that I have to put the mill up on drums to get on top of. Each job is different and my price is going to reflect what it costs to do each and a profit margin.

The customer could be one of my established client based or some guy I don't know. If you buy $80,000 dollars worth of scantling timber off me a year, dammed right you'll get a good deal when you ask me to send the portable around to cut up the tree in your back yard.
The customer might wish to pay in cash, or cheque, in scantling logs or cabinet logs. Doesn't effect the cube rate to cut what he has but... it all gets factored in.
And if you can wait for your contact sawing till the tail of the wet... around March/April when the yard is looking empty and it's still too wet to start cutting and I've got men on wages doing maintenance trying to look busy... you get a better deal as well.

Every job is different, and I feel my pricing should reflect that.

There is a fair rate for any given job. There is a reasonable expectancy for a job to be well done and all of this is modified by supply and demand, which is the essence of economics. There is too an allowance made for volume, regular customer and other considerations.

Having said all of that, there has to be a base price structure from which to work. The difficulty for an owner of a small business is to gauge the market and ensure he or she is in the right pricing range.

This is not easy to do and it is not necessarily the same for each one of you.

Regards
Paul

I find it best to give a standard rate and any anomalies discussed with the client and priced as extras. Sometimes these anomalies can be dealt with by the customer and there removal is to both parties advantage. As for setting up on drums, I'm not interested, there are better ways and better mills for dealing with jumbos. I'm 60 and a bloody knocked about 60 at that. If someone thinks I'm going to do a Tarzan impersonation, just so they can have some wood, they've got another think coming.

$250/m3 for swing blade milling worked out on a log cube.

$100/blade damaged

$100/hour travel if over 30mins drive charged first day of job only.

$100/ hour extra if i have to move mill between logs or if i have to snig logs/ cut trees down.

if you have recycled beams or something stupid or want 400mm squares i charge $150/hour.

$500 minimum

for that rate i will cut a log in a backyard sitting on a garden bed both ends on a 45* angle tha ti had to lift the mill over a fence to get it in there, or ill cut a log in teh middle of an open paddock that has been put up on skids be teh landowners tractor. logs 2m dimiter or a log 300mm diamiter it dont matter. dry old brushbox or fresh red cedar makes no diferance.

every now and then i come out ahead sometimes i dont but the customer always gets timber at almost a third of teh cost of buying it at teh local timber yard.