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Thread: Lucas mill woes

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rehctub View Post
    Ive done all the adjustments and just can't get my cuts to meet. What happens is the blade flicks to the left about 10 mm when it exits the vertical cut, so it's being pit under pressure.
    This is due to blade tension, or bad sharpening. With what you have written below about not using water - that blade will be stuffed as far as tension goes but also if you've sharpened badly,it will play up too - when you look down the back of the blade, is the front face of the tooth EXACTLY perpendicular to the body of the blade?


    Then, once I dod the hoz cut, the blade jams towards the last third of the log and when it exits, the hoz cut is about 8mm below the vertical cut line.
    blade tension, bad sharpening. Loss of blade tension will cause the blade to wander off it's line during the cut, bad sharpening, as above will also cause it. In the horizontal this can be 'worked around' by taking smaller horizontal bites, but the problem is still the blade.

    Will try another blade because I do use my mill to rip posts and do so without the guard/water bottle so it may have gotten too hot.
    Why the hell would you do that???? firstly - no blade guard?!?!!? secondly the most issues you will ever get is from loss of tension, water is the only way to safeguard against that!!!
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

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  3. #17
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    Hi,

    Also had the same problem earlier this year. First thought; movement in the log. After checking for this and few more cuts going the same way.
    Second thought; something wrong with the blade. Was a new blade (fresh from sawdoctor), changed blades again with new blade, same problem.
    Only thing left I thought was setting of the mill. I had never "messed" with this and was very reluctant to do so but being on the job in the middle of the bush (no phone signal) I felt it was the only thing I could try without writing off the day.
    Conclusion: the setting doesn't go out by itself, definitively not by enough to cause problems like that. Had nothing to do with adjustment of the mill, after getting back to original setup decided never to mess with that again

    I ended up going home and checking the blades. Only thing wrong was: the sawdoctor had one of the angles of the teeth wrong by about 5 degrees (was very hard to see without accurate measuring tools). Correcting this fixed the problem. He ended up re-tipping and sharpening all blades again.

    I am pretty confident to say now: If there is no movement in the log or the mill, and you get more then a couple of cuts going off course, there is something wrong with the blade, change the blade. Also if you have to change the setting of the sharpening grinder when you put a "new" blade on: check the blade, shouldn't have to adjust the grinder at least never by much.

    ( I agree that the lack of water would have messed your blade up and is probably causing your problem)

    Bernt

  4. #18
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    I've said it many times on here and other places - just because the blade came from a saw doctor, doesn't mean it is right. My experience has been most saw doctors are no good -they say they can do Lucas blades but they have no idea. It's up to the operator to find out...

    I've used 7 different saw doctors (from Gympie, through Brisbane and out to Gatton) on my Lucas blades over the years and only one has got blades back, he now lives over 250k away from where I cut and I still use him. It's up to the operator to learn signs of blade problems, you do this by making sure your gear is in the best condition it can be, learning your job properly and actually thinking about what is going on, then you get the confidence to be able correctly determine the cause of problems.
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

  5. #19
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    Well said Al, same goes for bandsaws I'm afraid. I even check over brand new bands out of the box... It's amazing what you find

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nifty View Post
    Well said Al, same goes for bandsaws I'm afraid. I even check over brand new bands out of the box... It's amazing what you find
    Yeah that's right Nifty, coz you take responsibility for the job you produce and the gear you use, many palm it off to the saw doctor and essentialy use that as an excuse instead of getting informed themselves...
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigidi View Post
    Yeah that's right Nifty, coz you take responsibility for the job you produce and the gear you use, many palm it off to the saw doctor and essentialy use that as an excuse instead of getting informed themselves...
    If you say you found 6 out of 7 saw doctors not good enough, it is not surprising they get the blame.

    I must say: Not having experience with Lucas blades doesn't mean they are not a good saw doctor. With the right specs, necessary feedback and little trial and error, I'm sure a lucas blade is nothing tricky for them. Compared to the blades that arrive there on a specially constructed trailer... It is very handy having a saw doctor local.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernt View Post
    If you say you found 6 out of 7 saw doctors not good enough, it is not surprising they get the blame.

    I must say: Not having experience with Lucas blades doesn't mean they are not a good saw doctor. With the right specs, necessary feedback and little trial and error, I'm sure a lucas blade is nothing tricky for them. Compared to the blades that arrive there on a specially constructed trailer... It is very handy having a saw doctor local.
    Bernt, I wasn't talking about the saw doctors, I was saying the operator has to take responsibility and have enough of a clue to understand when the blade is performing properly or not. More often than not the sawdoctor isn't blamed and the Lucas Mill is!!!! When in actual fact, in many cases I've come across, its a combination of a sawdoctor who has no idea and an operator who doesn't know enough to realise the saw doctor isn't good enough. The amount of times on here and other places I've come across people saying something like "Lucas Mill woes...blade just came back from the saw doctor..." but its clearly not the mill that is the problem, its the saw doctor, but the owner hasn't got enough experience /understanding to realise that.

    The problem isn't the saw doctor not knowing the specs - I printed out specs and spent 2 hours at a saw doctors when I moved to bris-vegas, they talked the talk, said they could do the job and I was intially satisfied they could do the job, sent them a blade, but they had no idea how to tension the blade. All the saw doctors I've used can put the tips on, but this is the thing that an 'owner' doesn't know - tips are only part of the equation - hammering the blade is just as important as getting the specs right.

    After Carl and I have started our sawmilling business out in Gatton, we've come to realise there is next to no-one who is able to tension a blade properly (including me)- lucas blades should be simple when compard to the difficulty involved in doing a 50" sawblade.

    I'm sure most the people who have trouble with their Lucas Mill don't understand the blade isn't flat and wouldn't have a clue about tension in the blade.

    Just ticks me off when people blame the mill, when its nothing to do with the mill, but more often than not a lack of understanding/experience: End of rant
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

  9. #23
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    Al, I completely agree with the way you look at this if only every body using a Lucas Mill was a professional sawmiller. However I assume most Lucasmills belong to amateurs/hobbyists/beginners and a resource like this forum is invaluable for learning the ins and outs of operating a mill. A lucas mill is almost like a car that you can turn the key and drive away in like most people without any understanding of what is happening under the bonnet. Resulting in relatively unexperienced operators.
    I expect most woodworkers to be able to use a planer. But when this planer start turning straight boards into bananas only the experienced know how to fix this, others will turn to e.g. this forum to work out what the **** is going on.

    It would be great if there was some kind of measuring system for blade tension. In my experience the putting the tension in the blade hasn't been the problem with saw doctors but how much? I feel that a little more tension than in a brand new blade makes the blade perform better in most timbers. I have had blades that cut amazingly beautiful but only in perfect knot free logs. I have also had (very bad) logs that I could only cut with an old blade that had gotten really stiff. There is no way I (as a relatively new, part-time saw miller)(less then 1000 hrs on the teller) can explain to a saw doctor how much tension to put in other then; "little more" or "that is too much". If then I (hopefully) don't see him for an other three months, how is he supposed to remember the conclusion from last time. Unless he has a whole list of Lucasmill customers with the same wishes. I admit I am not experienced enough to tell the tension just by feeling the blade (I try...), the only way for me to know is to put it on the mill and see how it goes.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernt View Post
    Al, I completely agree with the way you look at this if only every body using a Lucas Mill was a professional sawmiller. However I assume most Lucasmills belong to amateurs/hobbyists/beginners and a resource like this forum is invaluable for learning the ins and outs of operating a mill. A lucas mill is almost like a car that you can turn the key and drive away in like most people without any understanding of what is happening under the bonnet. Resulting in relatively unexperienced operators.
    I expect most woodworkers to be able to use a planer. But when this planer start turning straight boards into bananas only the experienced know how to fix this, others will turn to e.g. this forum to work out what the **** is going on.

    It would be great if there was some kind of measuring system for blade tension. In my experience the putting the tension in the blade hasn't been the problem with saw doctors but how much? I feel that a little more tension than in a brand new blade makes the blade perform better in most timbers. I have had blades that cut amazingly beautiful but only in perfect knot free logs. I have also had (very bad) logs that I could only cut with an old blade that had gotten really stiff. There is no way I (as a relatively new, part-time saw miller)(less then 1000 hrs on the teller) can explain to a saw doctor how much tension to put in other then; "little more" or "that is too much". If then I (hopefully) don't see him for an other three months, how is he supposed to remember the conclusion from last time. Unless he has a whole list of Lucasmill customers with the same wishes. I admit I am not experienced enough to tell the tension just by feeling the blade (I try...), the only way for me to know is to put it on the mill and see how it goes.

    Yep. What you said. I know I appreciate the info I get of here immensely. Soooo much appreciation for the guys that know sharing with those who only know enough to be dangerous.
    Tim. A man of measurable mess.
    http://www.bushhavencottages.com.au

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigidi View Post

    The problem isn't the saw doctor not knowing the specs - I printed out specs and spent 2 hours at a saw doctors when I moved to bris-vegas, they talked the talk, said they could do the job and I was intially satisfied they could do the job, sent them a blade, but they had no idea how to tension the blade. All the saw doctors I've used can put the tips on, but this is the thing that an 'owner' doesn't know - tips are only part of the equation - hammering the blade is just as important as getting the specs right.
    Finding a good saw doctor is, IMHO, one of the essential requirements of running a sawmill. Like you Al, I went through a few of them before finding one who could do more then just re-tip a blade:

    I had one guy who could handle a 56" wheel no problem but couldn't/wouldn't change how he operated to do the lucas blades correctly. Competent enough on the big gear but for whatever reason every lucas blade we sent to him wouldn't cut well, and I couldn't convince him that a 5 tooth blade with 30 HP might just need to be hammered differently to a 60 tooth blade with 300HP behind it. Move on.

    There was the guy who seemed to be able to make them cut but his braising wouldn't hold. Every so often a fresh blade would just spit a tooth, prang the next two into it clearing the cut, and change blades. They cut well enough that I put up with it for a while but then came the day when I blew three blades fresh back from the sawdoctor in 45 minutes - I broke a tooth of the last one with my fingertips straight out the box. Move on.

    Then there was a guy who couldn't hammer. Dammed good man at resharpening hand tool blades but that was about his limit. Move on.

    The I a found a good guy, and have been with him ever since. But I still had to have a conversation with him that went something like "Why did you charge me to hammer only one but re-tip three?... always put my blades on the anvil when you retip okay... mate, its not a waste of money if they were cutting well with the old teeth, screwing up one good 10 x 2 for want of hammering them is a waste of money, and that 10 x 2 is worth more then you charge to put them on the anvil. Always put them on the anvil!!!" And now he's ready to retire.

    The problem is that, as you mention, it's about more then retipping and sharpening a tooth. Skilled sawdoctors are becoming scarcer and scarcer, which reflects the decline of the sawmilling sector as a whole. There's just not enough work out there to keep more then a few of them working full time and most of those who are good are approaching retirement age. It's a worry.

  12. #26
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    I've found these days its getting harder to find a sawdoctor that actually puts em on an anvil and doesn't just roll tension. What a waste of time that is.
    cheers pat

  13. #27
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    Default Great saw doctor

    Hi there.

    I have been using the guys at Bendigo Saw Sharpening (formerly Sawquip I think) for years with great results. They do my Lucas Mill blades, chipper blades and morticer chains. Service is second to none. I courier them there in the arvo and have them back by 10am the next day if I really need them. Mark, the guy I deal with, even went in at 7am on a Saturday to do my chipper blades just so I could keep a my contract crew progressing over a weekend. Could not recommend them highly enough.

    I don't know if these are the guys Lucas Mill recommends, but they have been great to me.

    Cheers

    James

    PS Big log salvage work starts again in about a month, standby for crazy pics of monster logs!!!

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