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Thread: lucas slabber rising in the cut
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21st September 2013, 02:09 PM #1Intermediate Member
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lucas slabber rising in the cut
Help. I'm having trouble with the blade of my Lucas slabber rising in the cut. The chain bar ends up bowing substantially in the middle. If I make it through the log it'll drop 20-30 mm. I'm getting about 2.5 meters down a log before its jambed. It only started doing it. The mill rails are running parallel. I've dressed the chain bar rails square. The teeth of the chain are the same length (measured with calliper's) and I'm filing 10 deg across 10 degree down. I've filed the rakers using a Carlton file o plate using the 'b' hole. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to try next. Any advice?
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21st September 2013, 03:01 PM #2Novice
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lucas slabber
how tight is the chain should be able to pull chain off back of bar 10mm or so ,we use a oregon chain sharpener with diamond wheel doesn't get much better for consistancey(big help) their not greedy as everyone makes out, are you placing wedges(10mm ply packers) behind bar as needed one at start every 1m or so after both sides of slab, full thottle helps we've had same slabber bar for past 16 years only upgraded to roller nose cause we bought last 2 nose bearings from lucas and they don't stock them any more apparently cheers baz
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21st September 2013, 03:15 PM #3Banned
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Check
Usually - when a chain runs off straight cut it's because of a few possibilities - which include error in sharpening BUT are not limited to those things.
Whats on top of the chain (Teeth and uneven sharpening possibly) can be magnified on the bottom of the chain and within the bar itself.
If a chains run for any length of time and is not straight cutting it places uneven wear on the underside "shoulder" of the chain, where it runs on the bar, so one shoulder can be higher or lower than its opposite side... and dressing the bar doesn't fix uneven shoulders under the tooth - which bare on the bar.
Also - when the tooth of the chain tilts - the drive link also tilts to one side and creates wear inside the bar slot on one or the other sides, which combined with excessive wear on the sides of the drive link, allows the chain with the uneven shoulder to "tilt slightly" in the cut and start the wandering away from the line.
How do you avoid this?
Well it all starts with getting it right from the outset.
When you dress a bar you can't dress the underside shoulders of the teeth where they run on the bar once they are worn uneven. You also can't fix any wear inside the bar slot that allows the chain to start tilting.
Answer?
Toss the bar and chain (and drive sprocket) and start with new ones!
What STARTS the rot?
Hand sharpening!
It's that simple... I can hand sharpen a chain well enough for falling & firewood work etc, but NOT well enough for slabbing a LOT of material.... where once the toilt starts you can't stop it...and continuing just makes it worse (increases the wear of shoulders bar and slot and drive link exponentially).
The chain saw sharpeners with the pink grinding disc that you bench mount and can pre set the depth and angle etc - allow you to always get the SAME cutting pressures both sides of the chain.
Start with new chain bar and drive sprocket.....and as soon as the chain starts to wander and STOP...
Swap to another new chain - and sharpen the old one on a proper chainsaw bench grinder arrangement, to get it all back to even both sides.
Pay attention to your lubing your chain - so wear is reduced in the slot on either side. You can get a second lube bottle drip feed attachment for the tip of the bar end when slabbing.
The rot all starts from poor sharpening practices - you just don't get away with them in slabbing as your finding out - even minor differences lead to exacerbating problems the further you go in the slab.
Many operators use a skip tooth chain for slabbing, some suggest it places less strain on the saw but also less side ways pressure on the bar slot.
Those are my suggestions....
Others mileage will no doubt vary.
Do whatever floats your boat.
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21st September 2013, 03:31 PM #4.
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If your chain is OK I'd be looking at bar wear.
If all that is OK I'd be looking at alignment ie is the bar coplanar with the mill rails and are the mill rails coplanar.
This is a good job for a digital angle finder (DAF) - zero the DAF on one of the mill rails and then place the DAF on the bar in the exact same orientation.
Make sure you check both ends and the middle of the bar and both mill rails
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21st September 2013, 08:12 PM #5
Have a few questions before giving an answer.
Dedicated slabber or slabbing attachment?
Have you removed the bar recently?Cheers
DJ
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21st September 2013, 08:27 PM #6Intermediate Member
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21st September 2013, 08:45 PM #7
Ok, have you locked the side shift down, cut will rise if this isn't locked down.
Cheers
DJ
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21st September 2013, 11:16 PM #8Senior Member
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Slabber problem to check...
Hi there
As BobL was suggesting, your set-up may not be completely parallel. Unless your trolley wheels have worn unevenly, you can generally assume your trolley frame sits flat on the rails. Your slabbing attatchment may not be mounted completely parallel to your trolley frame. If you don't have a digital angle finder thingy-me-bob handy(don't know how I missed that one at the shop Bob!) in your tool box, just get a 1.2-1.8m level or good narrow straight edge and sit it across the bar. Be careful to place it so as the teeth or depth gauges are not cocking it up slightly, then measure the distance between the top of the trolley frame and top of the straight edge on both sides of the trolley and at both ends of the bar. The straight edge magnifies any small upward or downward angle of the bar compared to the flat running trolley. Using a pair of longer straight edges, one on the trolley and one on the bar will magnify it further.
If there is any difference, use thin shims cut from an aluminium can to pack the bar flat, parallel to the trolly. All this assuming that your sharpening is good, however if the bar is not running parallel to the rails and trolley, it will wander up or down no matter how sharp your chain is. It is definitely worth eliminating, as well as the other possible causes mentioned.
Cheers
James
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22nd September 2013, 10:19 AM #9Intermediate Member
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Thanks for all the advice so far fellas. Yep have the trolley lock on. I'm using wedges to hold up the slab as I'm cutting. Oil bottle gets turned on before starting each time, and its not blocked. I'll check out to ensure the blade is running parallel to the trolley, it may have moved somehow. Thanks for the descriptions on how best to do it. All your advice has given me a few more things to try to play with. I must admit its actually been enjoyable tinkering trying to get things back to right even though I've not been successful to date. I'll check for parallel using the methods described (but don't have a DAF sorry Bob). I've measured for side to side parallel blade to trolley but not front to back. Failing that I'll turn the bar over, see if that makes a difference. The chain cutter link 'shoulders' on one of the chains I've been using are quite worn. Its possible this one chain has ruined things on me. Cheers Frank
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22nd September 2013, 11:37 AM #10.
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That's a sure sign the chain is laying over in the cut.
Even if the bar rails are square, using an old chain with worn drive links on one side will allow the chain to lay over on one side. This in turn will spread the bar rails apart and wear the gap internally and then even using a new chain I will want to lay over in the cut even if the bar has been dressed. Check the bar gap size and if necessary get the bar rails squeezed back together. This should be done with a special wheeled tool, if you try and do this in a vice etc it will damage the rails.
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23rd September 2013, 07:22 PM #11Intermediate Member
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THanks Bobl. Do you know what the wheeled tool might be called? I spoke with my local saw doctor who knew what I meant when I asked about closing the gap on the gauge but doesn't have the tool. Reports he doesn't get much call to do it-most just cast away the blade and get a new one, however he does note he talking $80 chainsaw bar not $xxx (not game to say out loud) to replace a lucas slabber bar. Anyway he's doing a bit of an ask about for me to see if there is someone local who will have a go at it.
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23rd September 2013, 08:42 PM #12.
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I just rememberedthey are called "Rail closers"
Check this out
Woodlandpro Chain Saw Bar Rail Closer | Rail Closers | Repair & Maintenance | www.baileysonline.com
Only $25 US!
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3rd October 2013, 06:20 PM #13
A fella doesn't post for a few days and ppl start spraying a heap of garbage.....there is NO WAY on god's green earth that hand sharpening slabbing chain ruins the bar, the chain and the bleeding sprocket!!!!
I have done nothing but hand sharpen my slabbing chains on my Lucas slabber for the past 10 years and have not replaced a bar yet! results are the proof.
Footrot, save your self considerable dollars - do not throw that bar, chain and sprocket away, and as others are so expert at Lucas slabbers you would think they should probably know they already have an oil feed at the roller so don't need a 'second' one added.
By what you posted in your initial post footrot many of the suggestions given where moot. Accepting what you wrote in your first post the 'orientation' of the slabbing bar in respect to the carriage would be my first suggestion, (as James suggested) but most commonly it could be from rail setup, roller wear, incorrect sharpening, bad raker filing (just a tip, you should use 'A' hole on that file-o-plate the 'B' hole is very aggressive - Lucas even make their own chain plates now instead of sending out the carlton one and it only has the single hole which corresponds with the carlton 'A' hole) or bad wear off the bar. The bar can be dressed back, the rakers can be brought back to correct height, bad sharpening can be 'filed' out, rollers can be replaced, rails can be setup better - all without the excessive dollars of throwing gear away.
In my opinion if the tie straps on the chain are badly worn, fine bite the bullet and chuck the chain, but everything else can be recified.
good luck and feel free to give me a ring if you likeI love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
Allan.
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4th October 2013, 06:59 PM #14Intermediate Member
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Just a bit of an update, following on from Sigidi's impassioned response. I'm not throwing anything out bar the chain. I've ordered a bar rail closer as I think wearing of the gauge is where the problem currently is. Worn gauge=chain tilting=more likely to divert from its course. I've previously tried hand hammering to close the rails on an ordinary chainsaw bar and well the results where ordinary, I ended up with hotspots. The plan is to reset the bar rails, dress them back square, new chain. Put it all back together in good alignment and take it from there. I'm not thinking its mill rails as I'd been using the blade with the mill set up in the same spot with no problems, rollers are in good condition etc. If I reset up the carriage with the slabber shimmed from scratch when I put the bar back on all should be good, fingers crossed. Don't be too hard on people offering advice Sigidi, the fact they are happy to put info in from their experience is good. It is up to us as receivers of said advice to decide what best fits our situation. I appreciate everyone who's taken the time to respond. I'll let you know how I've gotten on.Cheers
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4th October 2013, 07:46 PM #15
Footrot - great news, you'll be cutting fine in no time - remember how to shim your slabber bar and you will be sweet.
Sorry for the 'passion', but as an explain (not to hijack your thread) I've spent the best part of a decade trying to defend ignorant comments made about Lucas mills, stuff like "they can't cut decent timber" when the blame can be squarly placed at the feet of the operator, not the machine.
On a good note, I'm pleased this hasn't cost you the thousand odd wasted dollars it may have and will only be around a hundred needed bucks to replace your chain and repair your bar.
Let us know how she cuts after you get back runningI love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
Allan.
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