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Thread: Milling options

  1. #1
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    Default Milling options

    Sorry people, I know this topic has been done to death, but I am after some insight on my options.
    I potentially want to upgrade from a chainsaw mill. It would appear I have four options. 1/ Lucas mill - comparatively expensive, proven, good resale, may have issues with small logs according to some posts I have read, productive, portable and I must say from a safety perspective, the blade retention method gives me grief, (yes I know they rarely are set free). 2/ Woodmizer, either LT10, LT15 or LT15 wide - cheaper, wider cut, not as good at producing dimensional timber, handles small logs better,possibly has trouble with our hardwoods, cheaper, less of a market second hand, (try finding a second hand Lucas!), can have blade wander issues, needs more leveling, (I have a laser level, so this probably isn't too big of a problem), narrower kerf although this is not a real issue as I will primarily be cutting timber for building, stockyards and other general construction, mainlt for myself I should add. 3/ GT26 Chinese ebay mill - looks similar to an LT10, has reputable engine (Kohler), cheaper still, possibly needing firmer ground and more leveling due to less rigid bed, questionable due to Chinese origin. 4/ Build my own bandmill - could build an absolutely kick azz mill that would be very rigid, bigger capacity than LT 15 wide etc for less than any of the other options, would be building mill rather than milling timber, I should add that I am a Boilermaker Welder and have both the expertise and the equipment to carry out this task, potentially poor resale value, limited time available.
    I wonder if the availability of stellite or TCT bands has leveled the field somewhat as it relates to saw blade life? Productivity is not my first consideration as I am not really doing this commercially.
    The Lucas is a very good tool, but I am unsure of whether the greater expense will be justified for my usage, (probably either a 6/14 or 6/18).
    I know that the Lucas will handle bigger logs, but they are few and far between and I do have a very adequate Alaskan Mill and 3120 saw that will handle slabbing/primary ripping if need be.
    I have a Toyota Huski and forks for handling logs and sawn timber.
    Right about now, I wish that I had paid more attention at the last field day I attended.

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  3. #2
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    First up I am their Victorian rep but have a look at these Turbo Saw Mill - The World's Best Portable Swing Blade Timber Saw Mills it gives you another alternative
    Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything, but they
    bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs .

  4. #3
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    Karl,
    I can vouch for a Lucas Mill..They certainly have their place and the Lucas manufacturers support their product and their customers very well.
    For the record, during the week I run a Woodmizer LT70 wide body and my own personal mill is a Woodmizer LT40 super hydraulic. So yes i will probably sing their praises.
    Of the bandsaws you mentioned I would choose the Woodmizer LT15 wide. From memory so don't hold me to it that gives a max width cut of about 875mm. The reason I say the wide body is because they handle odd shaped logs a lot easier, the wide body LT70 really opened my eyes to this. Seeing as you have a bobcat the need for hydraulics is not essential.
    Bandsaws DO cut very accurate timber… If you would like me to cut you a very accurate 2mm veneer straight off the saw feel free to bring me some timber
    Blades…. I have tried both TCT and Stellite blades on my bandsaw and HATED them. I uses standard Woodmizer Double Hard steel blades and for what you pay for them they are great value for money.
    In our hardwoods I use 4 and 7 degree hook blades and have never had a problem. I plan to trial Cooks saw blades as you get 20 for the price you pay for 10 from Woodmizer so stay tuned for that one
    Wavy cuts….It is so simple and it all comes down to 4 major factors and yes there are minor factors but that is all part of learning your machine.
    1 Using the right blade and ensure it is sharp or has an edge and the teeth are set properly. Don't be afraid of taking a blade off a bit early because as your blade dulls you are slowly losing tooth set as well
    2 Feed rate ,Find the right speed at which to cut, too fast or too slow and a waving we will go, especially too fast.
    3 Blade tension… This I consider probably the most important of them all. I run mine with slightly more tension than recommended. However if your blade tension is too low 2 things are happening. Your blade is loose or floppy in a sense and will wave or won't cut a flat surface, usually leaving an "EGG" as I call it, a curved surface on your cut. The other thing that happens when your blade tension is low is your blade speed slows. Like losing traction when you drive your car on gravel, the wheels are spinning but not getting you anywhere, same with a bandsaw. The wheels are spinning a full speed but the blade doesn't have full "traction" thus slowing down, so you are then trying to cut at a normal feed rate with slower blade speed. Your blade becomes too "hungry" and can't clear sawdust quick enough making your tooth set non existent and a waving we will go.
    4 Blade cleanliness… Ensuring your blade lube system is working well and cleaning the blade as it cuts. Most machines have a water lube system, on the LT15 I think its gravity fed. On larger machines its electronic. On a Lucas I'm not sure how it works but someone can chime in on that one.
    As well as that I use a small spray bottle with sump oil and diesel mixed 50/50 in it and spray the blade every 3 or 4 passes which is very handy in sappy timbers but i use it all the time.
    Hope a bit of that helps,

    Nifty

    I Love My Woodmizer, just ask me. Isn't that right Al

  5. #4
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    Nifty,

    I was going to mention you as soon as the options came up for a bandsaw

    FIRST AND FOREMOST - Id like to dispell and blade retention horseshit when using a Lucas!!!! if the operator does the wrong thing with any piece of equipment dangerous situations can happen. I've operated 3 different models of Lucas mills, for almost 10 years, began doing hobby stuff right up to full time commercial cutting, 7 days a week - never once has a blade come off! its about doing the right thing and not 'thinking' you are doing the right thing. Unfortunately a lot of people out there are Lucas Owners,not Lucas Operators and more often than not they have NFI ...Rant ends

    Lucas can handle a small log, no problem. I've cut a heap of logs where the only thing from the log was a 6x6 - so around 180-200mm diameter. But it is nicer to get into bigger logs, less setting up, more production. Small logs are dealt with differently to big logs - again down to being an operator rather than an owner

    My impression is the learning curve on a bandmill is far steeper and longer than on a mill such as a Lucas, but I have no direct experience to fully qualify that personal felling.

    As for a Turbo saw being another option, it is but so is a Gibson twin edger with one man bench, only around $750,000!!! A lucas may cost more on initial transaction, but you are buying quality and amazing resale - you said it yourself Karl, you can't get one second hand, so once you factor resale into the purchase, you may find the mill has cost you nothing, all you might be doing is putting a 'deposit' on it, use it as long asyou want until you finish cutting what you want, then when you sell it, you get your 'deposit' back...
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

  6. #5
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    Your feeling about the learning curve between swing blade and bandsaw are very true Al.
    So there you have it Karl, from two experienced "Operators" not just owners.
    Good post by the way Al

    Nifty

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nifty View Post
    Your feeling about the learning curve between swing blade and bandsaw are very true Al.
    So there you have it Karl, from two experienced "Operators" not just owners.
    Good post by the way Al

    Nifty
    Cheers Nifty

    I had the missus out yesterday, she cut for the whole day, cut a bunch of 5x2's 3.0m long - she cut I tailed and left her to it. Basically she has cut 8 logs with instruction and prompting prior to this and that's the only time she's touched it - not very much of a steep learning curve. (but also wouldn't be sending her on cut jobs on her own just yet)

    For yourself Nifty, how long 'til you where confident to go out on paid cut jobs with the Woodmizer. I got the impression from the Us forum bandsaw milling takes a bit of time before you can do things right and get things going well.
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

  8. #7
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    Got thrown in the deep end mate. Bought the mill, someone rang me about cutting 150 tonne of their plot they leased to the mines via the guy I bought the mill off. I had 10 logs at home… cut them and up to my neck I went Darn scary Al I can tell you but came out the other side OK
    Can only think myself lucky to have been a 4th generation saw miller, the previous had nothing to do with bandsaws and thought I was mad, and there the challenge began my friend.

  9. #8
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    I can also add Al its like buying a new car when you buy a new mill. You are going to be more confident while everything is new and aligned… You have the confidence that there is less chance that something will go wrong "mechanically", so you just have to look like you hopefully know what you are talking about

  10. #9
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    Thanks for the replies all. Apologies that I have taken a while to respond, but I have been away at work at a new job, (made redundant due to mine closure on the 24th, head hunted and started new job on the 26th ).
    The turbo saw is an interesting option that I will follow up on, particularly the chainsaw powered version. It would need to be substantially cheaper than a Lucas to sway me though. Based on their US pricing I cannot see it being cheap enough to sway me and their 8" mill with a 13HP Honda seems to be knocking right on the heels of a Lucas without the option of the add on goodies.
    Why do both Lucas and Turbosaw list prices in the US, but not Australia? A bit frustrating.
    If I do go the Lucas route, I would be looking at either the 6/14 or 6/18 mills. My thoughts are that power is good and another 4HP cannot be a bad thing, plus you gain standard side winders and track extensions with the 6/18, which lessens the price differential further.
    Your thoughts?
    I certainly agree that a Lucas mill is something that I would be able to on sell at will or even turn a dollar from if need be. I suspect that a bandmill may be a bit harder to sell.
    I think I may actually have a lead on an older model second hand Lucas mill that was bought and never used. What percentage of new price should I be aiming for in starting negotiations?
    At this point, I have knocked the GT26 out of the running, so in the ring we have the Lucas, my home built "Bandzilla", The Woodmizer LT15 Wide and maybe the Turbosaw.

  11. #10
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    Karl, have you seen the turbosaw warrior chainsaw thing in actual operation? - not edited youtube vids, but actual running? They recently did a 'demo' up at maleny and to be honest it was underwhelming...my opinion is, right from the box a 6-18 would out perform it as much as 2:1 and as you got better that difference would get bigger...

    My 6-18 was just under $11k when I bought it around 10 years ago, not sure the price now. On your second hand one, I'd say you'd be lucky to get it for 80% of new price.

    Ask Nifty about resale on bandsaws - I'm not sure how easy or hard they are to sell second hand.
    I love my Lucas!! ...just ask me!
    Allan.

  12. #11
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    Ha Ha Al this is where you get a laugh.
    Lucas mills being built in OZ you get what you get and when you sell it it makes it easy to evaluate what it is worth.
    Bandsaw…Most are made in the USA or China. When I bought mine the OZ dollar was .69c to the USD !!!! Wonder why I haven't sold it?

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