Thread: Mini Monster Log

I did a pic

Attachment 124894

if it's californian redwood,from my very limited knowledge of cutting them,yes you can cut it that way. i found it to be the nicest timber i've milled

for the best result in this sort of timber my advice would be to "backsaw" as much of it as possible. This will give the best growth ring figure and is what is considered the optimum for the likes of cedar, douglas fir, ashes and most pines. this way it will season quickly but is more prone to distortion than quarter sawing. I do not know what books on milling you may have but one i refer to quite a bit is called "woodwork in theory and practice" by a bloke of the name John A Walton. it is an australian publication and covers a lot of facets of woodworking and milling. I am aware of many others as well that give a good grasp on how to best cut timber and season etc. The book I refer to above gives quite explicit drawings and instructions on how best to cut logs into lumber. By what i can see you would probably be better off cutting your thinner slabs where you have marked your larger cants and leave the thicker cuts to come out of the middle of the log, as then you would be able to "backsaw" the larger slabs into the sizes that you want, thus getting the maximum benefit of the presentation of the grain and not creating "spikes" where the knots cross the boards if you wish to use it for structural timber.

The best book I have is "The conversion and Seasoning of Wood" by William Brown which is pretty good but has only one chapter on conversion.

The extra problem that I didn't mention is the taper. I did not think of it before but I'm pretty sure that it invalidates the previous cutting plans. The log goes from about 1500mm to 900mm over a length of 4400mm.

The book that I mentioned above has nothing on how to deal with taper other than to cut it off.

I must admit I'm feeling a bit lost. From what I understand the first series of cuts is parralel to the bark along the top of the log. Since the 200x200s are the priority I think I should take slabs off parallel to the bark until the heartwood is exposed so that I can take off a 200mm cant that will allow two 200mm square posts to be taken form the full length of the cant that will be 90-95% heart wood.

After this though I get lost. Do I take another 200mm cant? The end will cross the heart but another cant at this point will get another bunch of 200mm x 200mm beams.

Basically I've got myself confused. I need about 35m of 200x200 and I'd like some slabs.

I've found a copy of that book you recommended Travis I'll see if I can get hold of the seller but it is not a good time of the year to be chasing stuff.

I am sure the book you have should give you the ides you need to do what you need just as well as the one I suggested.

Unfortunately it doesn't really have anything on dealing with steep tapers. Even with small tapers its only suggestion is to take the taper out from the outside of the log.

I've got a report called "A simplified Procedure for Developing Grade Lumber from Hardwood Logs" but it doesn't deal with big tapers only those that can get taken out with a board or two.

Originally Posted by weaver

Unfortunately it doesn't really have anything on dealing with steep tapers. Even with small tapers its only suggestion is to take the taper out from the outside of the log.

I've got a report called "A simplified Procedure for Developing Grade Lumber from Hardwood Logs" but it doesn't deal with big tapers only those that can get taken out with a board or two.

One way I have seen to work is to work out the square you can cut from the smallest end, lift the small end of the log to the point where the heart will be level for the length of the log, and basically cut to the square of what can be cut out of the small end. the flitches can then be reworked, this will ensure that your grain will remain parrallel to the cut however if the log is quite large this could present problems with being able to turn it etc. however if you have a long enough bar and some good wedges you should be able to cut the top of the square then follow it by cutting the bottom cut. Imagine if the log was round and you can cut a 500mm square out of the small end cut your top flitchso that you will be on line to cut the square top. you will have a flitch which will be large at the butt end which can be dealt with later. If you want to cut some bark to bark slabs you can either work out where you want them cut from now or you can slice 200 mm slabs which you can handle more easily down to where you want to start cutting them. Doing it this way will ensure that any pith in the heart or undesireable heart timber will be in one board, right through the centre of the timber.

If you have the means to maneouver you can cut the full square by cutting the top and bottom of the square then rolling onto the side and doing the same again however this will negate the ability of taking bark to bark slabs, but you will be working with a perfectly square piece of timber which you should be more easily able to break down into dimensional lumber with "good" grain characteristics for seasoning.

If you were to do it by cutting the 200 mm slabs to where you wish to cut your slabs you can then set up the 200 mm slices on edge clamped together and repeat the process, cut the flitch off the top and then just cut 200 mm slabs if you started with 4 slabs you will get 4x 200mm square poles per cut.

Heavy tapers can be hard to deal with but I generally work on what I can get out of the small end and then rework the leftovers so to speak into what I can. This should give you the best structural timber you can get out of what you are cutting.

I get up to the Dean /Newlyn/ spargo creek area quite a bit so you better save me a little bit of it, if you PM me a contact number I will get in touch next time I am up that way and come and see if I can't help you out with your mill and stuff.

As you have described is the standard method that I have used for a bunch of logs and it certainly is simple. Don't muck around square it up and make use of what you can out of the flitches. However, what I was thinking about doing was sawing so that instead of the taper being taken from the outside of the log it is left on the inside of the log. Ie the first series of cuts is parralel with the bark. From what I have read this is meant to produce a superior quality of timber. My problem is that the log that I saw it demonstrated on only had a small bit of taper. On a log about 5m long a wedge of about 3" wide was left which was discarded. Apparently on logs that have heavy taper you continue to mill the wedge and the boards get shorter and shorter with a pointy bit at the end that gets docked off.

Weaver, are you running a bandsaw mill?

With the Lucas there are two ways to cut with a tapered log (maybe you can see if either would apply to you) first way is to align the rails with the top of the log, cut through until you get to the heart on the small end, then align the rails with the bottom of the log and discard the 'wedge' from the heart. You can re-saw whatever you can get from the 'wedge'

Another way is as Travis mentioned, line up with the heart, this splits the amount of taper in half and as you know puts it on the outside of top and bottom. I like lining up with the heart as I feel the timber has even tension and is less likely to pull once cut.

Either way is simple with the adjustable rails on the Lucas, but on a bandsaw, in method 1 you have to pick up the small end of the log 600mm, cut down to the heart, then pick the butt of the log up 600mm, either one is going to be quite a task

Method 2, you pick up the small end of the log 300mm and then no more picking up.

I'd also advise taking your posts from as close to centre as possible, the 'pull' from the sapwood is greatly reduced and therefore your posts should be straighter - nothing worse than taking a nice large 64 sqin post out to find the thing is bent and you can't straighten them

Do you need the timber to be 6m in length? if not I'd dock the log to 300mm over required length too, this will reduce the amount of taper you are dealing with

nah I believe he is running a chainsaw mill sigidi, check out the thread about the problems he has encountered. personally I would mill through and through and as sigidi has said I would recommend cutting the larger dimension poles from closer to the middle of the log. I say to cut it through and through as this way you will not have to manhandle big bits of log or do some major wedging to hold up big bits while you are cutting.

Hey, Trav, sounds like you really need me down there mate...

I'd better get cracking.

The wr/cedar should cut like butter, no? And with the taper you can only get what it allows: just make sure you get the full length cant[s] as large as possible and make the most of the shorter lengths on the taper, no?
This is where the mizer comes into it's own as, if the piece is stressing/moving it's no trouble to overcut and trim it to size. Lose a sliver but get what you want. And it can flip and mill from the other side. This also seems to cut down the stress movement.

Fer what it's worth... save you on kerf too.

Want to wait?

Happy New Year anyway lads.

Best,
rich

Originally Posted by richie47

Hey, Trav, sounds like you really need me down there mate...

I'd better get cracking.

The wr/cedar should cut like butter, no? And with the taper you can only get what it allows: just make sure you get the full length cant[s] as large as possible and make the most of the shorter lengths on the taper, no?
This is where the mizer comes into it's own as, if the piece is stressing/moving it's no trouble to overcut and trim it to size. Lose a sliver but get what you want. And it can flip and mill from the other side. This also seems to cut down the stress movement.

Fer what it's worth... save you on kerf too.

Want to wait?

Happy New Year anyway lads.

Best,
rich

Unfortunately it isn't me cutting up the big redwood rich, But yes it should cut like butter, wish it was me cutting it up.

I will find some nice blackwoods that will give your saw a good tryout, I don't know why but Redgum cuts easier with a chainsaw than the blackwoods we have around here.

Originally Posted by Travis Edwards

Unfortunately it isn't me cutting up the big redwood rich, But yes it should cut like butter, wish it was me cutting it up.

I will find some nice blackwoods that will give your saw a good tryout, I don't know why but Redgum cuts easier with a chainsaw than the blackwoods we have around here.

That's interesting; it could be that they're much harder grown...hopefully with some cranky grain and flash, getting a bit keener now mate! Just have to marshall, tidy and list about 40 timber stacks as the farm is for sale and I dont want to have to rush back for an auction. Like to keep all the cute stuff, cedar, silky,oz teak, blackwood, some nice flooded, hoop etc, flog the rest, camphor, brushbox and I dont remember what else and take the show on the road.
Catch a Swing workshop in Coffs on the 16th and roll on down with me feet still tappin'.

Hope your neighbour's got some noice tender baby jumbucks in the paddock we can befriend, i'll be worn to a sliver by then!

BTW find me some redgum too please.

So I'll finish these blackbutt logs asap and start tidying. They're coming up nicely - 6m x 12" and 14"x 2"s, try and get a pic up for you. Planted by a mate 35 years ago in a gulley, some of the best hardwood I've seen in an area noted as being too soft for h/wood.

Best for new year,

rich

Hey Travis,
Coupla pics of those blackbutt boards - they range from 8"x2" to 14"x2"'s, the stacks are in the background. Washed nice and clean by the rain.
Logs are 6.0 m long mostly, some 5.9m and all off the property. 35 yrs old. Got at least 2 lengths from each stick. Big ends averaged round 500mm diam, tapering. I'm strapping them and coming back later to mill 4"x2"'s for the framing; some 11"x2"'s will be used to make uprights and beams to hang the house[box] underneath. Taste and diplomacy prevent me from commenting on the "comics" [plans] - poles would have looked noice too but given me less work as I would have only been required to square them off, maybe with a slight taper. Used less timber anyway, this way. My new blades cut this pretty well. Not superfast but accurate.
Cheers, r

ps. The machine is working here, you may be able to see the sawdust from the exhaust tube. Good to be able to get away from the noise a little. Last pic is of the last 3 logs. Waste pile on the left is mostly from last year's milling, recovery is approx. 80%+ or better as I machine either side of the half-rounds parallel for shed siding; looks really funky/downhome and is sooo cheap!
almost talked meself into putting the prices up!