Thread: will sulpur/mancozeb corode steel?

Forget the mill/saw, read the MSDS and then tell us if you think it's still a good idea to slosh spray it around in the manner you describe.


"Mancozeb at high levels has caused birth defects in test animals, hind leg paralysis and an increased incidence of retinal atrophy related to old age. It has caused thyroid tumors in test animals, resulting from ethylenethiourea (ETU) formation. ETU, a possible trace contaminant and breakdown product of mancozeb , primarily affects the thyroid. It has also caused other endocrine , liver and blood effects, tumors and birth defects in test animals."

Maybe you already have been exposed?

im pretty sure its not that bad its sold at every hardware and even at woolies to spray your veggies and flowers. even says to use it to spray your lawn.

it just says may irratate eyes, nose throat and skin. like all chemicals have to.

here is the MSDS http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-c...0000020544.pdf

Just bought some today to coat hoop pine to be sawn next week. Hope its not that bad. Will take the necessary precautions and pass on the info to end users.
cheers
steve

Originally Posted by weisyboy

im pretty sure its not that bad its sold at every hardware and even at woolies to spray your veggies and flowers. even says to use it to spray your lawn.

it just says may irratate eyes, nose throat and skin. like all chemicals have to.

here is the MSDS http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-c...0000020544.pdf

It's one thing to spend an hour spraying your lawn or vegies, and another doing what you propose. Why don't you write to Yates and ask them if their MSDS applies to using it in the water supply of a Lucas mill. Don't forget to mention that you will be walking backwards and forwards in a continual fog of the stuff for a couple of days in shorts and sunnies

teh only time there is any watter going anyware is when you are swinging teh blade teh rest of teh tiem the watter is absrbed by the wood.

obviously you have never seen a bloke using a msiting machine to sprat tomatoes.

i'll worrie about my health i just wanna know about what it will do to my mill.

"carl the living example of what not to do."
regards inter

this is the stuff i use not yates surls same name thow.
http://www.searle.com.au/pdf/Mancozeb%20Plus.pdf

[quote]

Major Health Hazards: Mancozeb is practically nontoxic orally with reported oral LD50 of more than 5000 to more
than 11,200 mg/kg in rats. Dermally it is also practically nontoxic, with reported dermal LD50 values of more than
10,000 mg/kg in rats, and more than 5000 mg/kg in rabbits. It is a mild skin irritant and sensitizer, and a mild to
moderate eye irritant in rabbits. Workers with occupational exposure to Mancozeb have developed sensitization
rashes. This product is a respiratory tract irritant, possible skin sensitiser.

Section 11 - Toxicological InformationToxicity: An information profile for Mancozeb is available at http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/ghindex.html

Acute toxicity: Mancozeb is practically non-toxic orally with reported oral LD50 of more than 5000 to more than
11,200 mg/kg in rats. Dermally it is also practically non-toxic, with reported dermal LD50 values of more than 10,000
mg/kg in rats, and more than 5000 mg/kg in rabbits. It is a mild skin irritant and sensitizer, and a mild to moderate eye
irritant in rabbits. Workers with occupational exposure to Mancozeb have developed sensitization rashes.

Chronic toxicity: No toxicological effects were apparent in rats fed dietary doses of 5 mg/kg/day in a long-term study.
Impaired thyroid function was observed as lower iodine uptake after 24 months in dogs fed doses of 2.5 and 25
mg/kg/day of Mancozeb, but not in those dogs fed 0.625 mg/kg/day. A major toxicological concern in situations of
chronic exposure is the generation of ethylenethiourea (ETU) in the course of Mancozeb metabolism, and as a
contaminant in Mancozeb production. ETU may also be produced when EBDCs are used on stored produce, or
during cooking. In addition to having the potential to cause goitre, a condition in which the thyroid gland is enlarged,
this metabolite has produced birth defects and cancer in experimental animals.
reduced fertility but no indication of embryotoxic effects. It is unlikely that Mancozeb will produce reproductive effects
in humans under normal circumstances.

Teratogenic effects: No teratogenic effects were observed in a three-generation rat study with Mancozeb at a dietary
level of 50 mg/kg/day. Developmental abnormalities of the body wall, central nervous system, eye, ear, and
musculoskeletal system were observed in experimental rats which were given a very high dose of 1320 mg/kg of
Mancozeb on the 11th day of pregnancy. In view of the conflicting evidence, the teratogenicity of Mancozeb is
properly known.

Mutagenic effects: Mancozeb was found to be mutagenic in one set of tests, while in another it did not cause
mutations. Mancozeb is thought to be similar to Maneb, which was not mutagenic in the Ames Test. Data regarding
the mutagenicity are inconclusive but suggest that Mancozeb is either not mutagenic or weakly mutagenic.

Carcinogenic effects: No data are available regarding the carcinogenic effects of Mancozeb. While studies of other
EBDCs indicate they are not carcinogenic, ETU (a Mancozeb metabolite), has caused cancer in experimental animals
at high doses. Thus, the carcinogenic potential of Mancozeb is not currently known.

Organ toxicity: The main target organ of Mancozeb is the thyroid gland; the effects may be due to the metabolite
ETU.

Fate in humans and animals: Mancozeb is rapidly absorbed into the body from the gastrointestinal tract, distributed
to various target organs, and almost completely excreted in 96 hours. ETU is the major Mancozeb metabolite of
toxicological significance, with carbon disulfide as a minor metabolite.[

QUOTE]

where exactly did u get your info from?

"carl the living example of what not to do."
regards inter

exactly ill do it so u dont have to.

i am convinced this stuff is safe

"Workers with occupational exposure to Mancozeb have developed sensitization
rash This product is a respiratory tract irritant, possible skin sensitiser"
"ETU (a Mancozeb metabolite), has caused cancer in experimental animals"
"The main target organ of Mancozeb is the thyroid gland; the effects may be due to the metabolite
ETU."
"Mancozeb is rapidly absorbed into the body from the gastrointestinal tract, distributed
to various target organs, and almost completely excreted in 96 hours. ETU is the major Mancozeb metabolite of
toxicological significance, with carbon disulfide as a minor metabolite"

best of luck then
regards inter

Originally Posted by InterTD6

"Workers with occupational exposure to Mancozeb have developed sensitization
rash This product is a respiratory tract irritant, possible skin sensitiser"
"ETU (a Mancozeb metabolite), has caused cancer in experimental animals"
"The main target organ of Mancozeb is the thyroid gland; the effects may be due to the metabolite
ETU."
"Mancozeb is rapidly absorbed into the body from the gastrointestinal tract, distributed
to various target organs, and almost completely excreted in 96 hours. ETU is the major Mancozeb metabolite of
toxicological significance, with carbon disulfide as a minor metabolite"

best of luck then
regards inter

i dont see how it is any more dangerous than usign it in a power sprayer at 150psi (recomended). the mill dosent mist any of it. it may spray on my legs but that can be fixed by wearign a pair of old jeans.

liek i said im not woried about the health issues.

Originally Posted by weisyboy

will either sulpur or the chemical mancozeb corode steel, silver solder or tungsten tips?

i have a heap of hoop pine to mill and each boart must be coated all over with a fungaside to help stop blue stian.

at the moment i am spraying them with a small pressure sprayer this is time consuming as i have to turn each board over to coat each side.

it would be mutch easyer to put the fungaside in teh watter bottle on the mill and have it running flat out. the only problem is that i dont want to put this stuff on the blade if it will corode the blade/silver solder or tips.

i will wash the thing out with watter after adn give teh blade a rince.

is it doable?

Originally Posted by weisyboy

i'll worrie about my health i just wanna know about what it will do to my mill.

weisyboy can you not read?

well maybe that was a bit harsh, but reading the MSDS you linked to implies to me that you are taking a very cavalier attitude to your health, the health of others and your responsibilities under the relevant poisons regulations which unlike the OH&S rules also apply to sole traders.

Do you know how much fungicide must you apply to each board for the preventative treatment you're using to be effective?

do you know what concentration of the chemical must you have in the Lucas's misting bottle before you will be applying the correct concentration?

do you know if the misting nozzel on the Lucas mill is the right sort for the material you want to apply?
presumably, the Lucas is fitted with a misting bottle to keep the blade cool. The MSDS you linked to says Decomposes on heating emitting toxic fumes, including those of oxides of nitrogen and oxides of sulfur – so how hot does the mill's blade get? If it's hot enough to decompose some of the material, then you'll have one or other of the nitric or sulphic acids attacking yuor blade and mill.



ian

well maybe that was a bit harsh, but reading the MSDS you linked to implies to me that you are taking a very cavalier attitude to your health, the health of others and your responsibilities under the relevant poisons regulations which unlike the OH&S rules also apply to sole traders.

i have tickets to be licensed to spray almost all poisons. i dot see how im endangering others i am the only one usign the mill handeling the timber.

Do you know how much fungicide must you apply to each board for the preventative treatment you're using to be effective?

i am testing that. i have just been mixign to what they recomend and tehm soakign teh timber.

do you know what concentration of the chemical must you have in the Lucas's misting bottle before you will be applying the correct concentration?

i would mix it as the label says no stronger. with the watter turned up full the timber comes out wet

do you know if the misting nozzel on the Lucas mill is the right sort for the material you want to apply?

no nozle just a pipe

presumably, the Lucas is fitted with a misting bottle to keep the blade cool. The MSDS you linked to says Decomposes on heating emitting toxic fumes, including those of oxides of nitrogen and oxides of sulfur – so how hot does the mill's blade get? If it's hot enough to decompose some of the material, then you'll have one or other of the nitric or sulphic acids attacking yuor blade and mill.

the blade is cold whe it comes out of the cut. especialy with the watter turned up full. i can grab teh blade imediatly and feel only a slight wamth.

When there are no toxic effects from a chemical then its resonably safe to use with out protection & PPE, this is not one of them
Regards inter

It's easy to cruise the web and find stuff to support or refute any argument. What I see is that contrary to the claims that it is absolutely safe, there is still research being done on mancozeb and similar chemicals. In a very recent ( Feb 2009) scientific report there is a links it to "idiotic Parkinsons disease", and another that says it's OK provided you remember to thoroughly rinse your vegies.

Seriously Carl, you are not using it the manner in which it is tended to be used so any MSDS related to spraying it on tomatoes doesn't mean anything. The sensible thing to do is to get a professional opinion OR not use in the way you intend. Just because you can't see a mist coming from the saw doesn't mean there is not a swarm of invisible stuff around your mill.

Although you probably intend to take it with you to your grave, you have also announced to the world that you intend to put an S5 poison in your Lucas. Although its probably safe if you try to sell it and if the buyer finds out it may put them off no matter how much you rinse it out.