Thread: timber database.

Originally Posted by Travis Edwards

I have noticed quite a few times on here where people have asked whatcertain trees are and what the timber would be like, or simply asking for info about what some timber they have heard of looks like, which got me to thinking about whether we would be able to put up a bit of a database of pictures of both trees and the timber milled from them. I am guessing that we would have to get one of the site moderators on board to help organise the filing of the different species and make it possible to do it.

What do you all think of the Idea? and do you think we could do something?

This has been raised several times before and at least one of the members was gunna show us how to do it.

While I know very little about botany I know enough to realize that;
a) A single picture of a tree is virtually useless for identification purposes and one needs pictures of bark, leaves and fruits/flower to be more precise about what it is. Fruits and flowers are not available all year round so collecting the photos takes longer than one thinks.
b) Taking good quality photos, keeping them a decent size and compressing them without destroying detail is just not within all members abilities so we would end up with a lot of useless photos.
c) Even when good quality photos are available the person identifying the tree needs to know what they are doing and have done some sort of a course to really know what to look for.

This is why books like the CSIRO Forest Trees of Australia cost $140. It really does take skilled botanists and photographers to do this properly.

Originally Posted by BobL

This has been raised several times before and at least one of the members was gunna show us how to do it.

While I know very little about botany I know enough to realize that;
a) A single picture of a tree is virtually useless for identification purposes and one needs pictures of bark, leaves and fruits/flower to be more precise about what it is. Fruits and flowers are not available all year round so collecting the photos takes longer than one thinks.
b) Taking good quality photos, keeping them a decent size and compressing them without destroying detail is just not within all members abilities so we would end up with a lot of useless photos.
c) Even when good quality photos are available the person identifying the tree needs to know what they are doing and have done some sort of a course to really know what to look for.

This is why books like the CSIRO Forest Trees of Australia cost $140. It really does take skilled botanists and photographers to do this properly.

Point A. I am not proposing just a single photo of a tree or the timber gained from it. what I am proposing is if members have photos of a known tree in its environment or the timber from such, to forward them to a central point be it a moderator or myself or what ever for evaluation as to wether it would be suitable as a demonstration picture for a species prior to being posted for the species. I would also look at incorporating links to other sites which have good photographs and descriptions of trees and their timber and fruits etc.

Point B. as I just explained this is where a moderator, myself or anyone else willing to commit a bit of time would come into it with the pics going to moderation prior to posting.

Point C. This is where cross referencing would be done by the people mentioned in the above points would come in and I would be willing to get in touch with some of my contacts at the CSIRO and other places to gain their assistance.

Point D. I know you didn't have one! But I am not talking about having a comprehensive database working from day one but one which covers many of the timbers that are commonly milled by people in the milling sector or used in the turning forums, or are found commonly on farms and in backyards etc.

It is something which could be grown over a period of time and use a lot of content which is already available on the net, even if it is only to give an idea of the species group and an idea of where to seek further info in regards to a particular tree or piece of timber on which a forum member is trying to find more information.

It could be easily divided into groups such as A.) acacias B.) myrtacea C.) casuarinas and alocasuarinas etc. etc. and incorporate a brief description of the group in the title, to guide the enquirer in the right direction of species.

I would be willing to commit time to doing the research etc. towards making it come to fruition.

An extremely good Eucalypt database (for SA, VIC, NSW species at any rate) already exists, in the form of the CSIRO EUCLID database (available on CD-ROM at local libraries), which allow any of about 150 identifying features to be selected. Best for identifying live trees, as buds, leaf form etc are most useful.

Def recommend a look. There are several books that work in parallel with this (also held by local libraries), using similar search/filters.

Cheers
Si

Originally Posted by SiJ

An extremely good Eucalypt database (for SA, VIC, NSW species at any rate) already exists, in the form of the CSIRO EUCLID database (available on CD-ROM at local libraries), which allow any of about 150 identifying features to be selected. Best for identifying live trees, as buds, leaf form etc are most useful.

Def recommend a look. There are several books that work in parallel with this (also held by local libraries), using similar search/filters.

Cheers
Si

I understand that there are many good databases out there, if you know what you are looking for but what I am trying to do is create a starting point for people who may have something out of the ordinary to be able to identify what species group they are looking at so that they can more easily refine their search. Two recent ones I recall are about the W.A. christmas tree and a cadaghi in QLD, If people could refine their search somewhat it would be a lot easier for them. I myself have a Tree, where I would like to A. find info on it and B. find more of it, but I do not know what species group it falls into to start refining my search for information.

I have also seen people looking for info on hairy oak and river oak and the like. Not just for info on the tree but what the miled timber from it is worth and have seen a lot of members put up links to where they can find the required info and first hand experience of the aforementioned. Wouldn't it be good if we could collate some of this data for use by fellow members in future exploits?

Here is an example of a known subject

Lemon scented gum.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...ins2.jpg?stc=1

https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...bar-grain1.jpg

Thanks BobL for the pics

messmate, stringybark, eucalyptus obliqua

Eucalyptus obliqua - Messmate stringybark, Messmate, Stringybark

Wikipedia

Oi Oi
I like the idea, however I also realise that asking a question is a blokes way of starting a conversation. Most of us have access to various botanical references, but really, you don't get the feeling of a typical "yarn" which occurs when a question is lodged into the aether and comments are made from all and sundry. "Collective nous" is what I think I would call this phenomenon.

Regards
Brosh

Originally Posted by Krunchie

Wikipedia

Err, . . . . . I just saw a tree about so high with rough bark and leaves like a gum tree. Now tell me how Wiki will help me identify it?

Originally Posted by Travis Edwards

I understand that there are many good databases out there, if you know what you are looking for but what I am trying to do is create a starting point for people who may have something out of the ordinary to be able to identify what species group they are looking at so that they can more easily refine their search. Two recent ones I recall are about the W.A. christmas tree and a cadaghi in QLD, If people could refine their search somewhat it would be a lot easier for them. I myself have a Tree, where I would like to A. find info on it and B. find more of it, but I do not know what species group it falls into to start refining my search for information.

The CSIRO EUCLID data base will do all of this way better than any of us can. It is exactly for people who do not know where to start. To learn how to identify trees accurately the most efficient way is to take a proper course. A friend of mine who had been working in the tree lopping business for 20 years and thought he knew his trees decided to do a course and was blown away by how much he did not know about the trees he was dealing with.

I have also seen people looking for info on hairy oak and river oak and the like. Not just for info on the tree but what the miled timber from it is worth and have seen a lot of members put up links to where they can find the required info and first hand experience of the aforementioned. Wouldn't it be good if we could collate some of this data for use by fellow members in future exploits?

Yes it would be useful, but presenting and maintaining all this in a systematic and accurate manner is a lot harder than it seems. And who decides what is correct and what is not? eg "what the miled timber from it is worth" - are we really going to accept any WWF members word on this - sorry but that will be another case of the blind leading the blind

I don't want to encourage or discourage you from doing this but I know I'd much rather be milling

taking photos of trees is not easy , tried a few years ago and , they just looked like trees!!! yep got that right , anyway but couldnt identify specific trees from the photos . think its a great idea , but a lot of carefull work needed to show subtle diferences , that may only be in seed pods or slight leaf shapes as per gum trees .

Originally Posted by BobL

Err, . . . . . I just saw a tree about so high with rough bark and leaves like a gum tree. Now tell me how Wiki will help me identify it?

Travis and others can add there pics and info to wiki

Originally Posted by Krunchie

Travis and others can add there pics and info to wiki

Sure - but assuming I know BA about this tree -

how do I find out what it is using wiki?

Originally Posted by BobL

Sure - but assuming I know BA about this tree -

how do I find out what it is using wiki?

Is it a pepermint gum or a pepper tree?

your last line states just why I wanted to see if we could do something to give people a starting point. maybe we would not be able to give them a series of pictures, or links, that are exactly the tree they want but may be a close relative and somewhere to elaborate their search from.

I agree bob it is probably too hard and without the support of fellow members will not get off the ground, so i will be like everyone else and put it in the TOO HARD basket.