Thread: A visit from the wood fairy - English Oak

Can't advise on uses etc but sticker it well and put some weight on top, have heard that it does move a lot.

like dj said stick it out properly (300mm centers) and lots of weight on top,make sure to paint ends and cover well.don't cut any slab less than 65mm thick and in the end cut it up for firewood.i have found this wood to be the worst timber i have ever cut.it has the lowest recovery rate of any timber i have cut,any knot,any imperfection in the timber will warp a board.any board that isn't quarter sawn will cup a great deal,stuffing up a well constructed pack of boards.i can't stand the stuff and i am quite happy to give away any oak timber i have in my yard,just to get rid of it.it's only saving grace is the quarter sawn boards are a beautiful timber

Never having cut English Oak, I have more questions than answers. Presumeably this is Quercus Robur?

If that is the case, in other lands it is a revered furniture timber. Why have you found it to be a problem timber here. Does it grow too fast here in Oz? Too much growth stress?

Bootle's bible refers to slower grown timber being preferable because it is softer (I found that surprising), but also he comments that drying is "slow and uneven" and that forcing the drying rate causes considerable degrade.

It may be worth considering thinner stickers to reuce the airflow and increase the drying time as well as Charlsie's recommendation of 300mm sticker spacing.

Regards
Paul

English oak is a difficult timber to dry, but not impossible. The most important things to get a successful outcome are Quarter sawn, thickness 38mm min, well sealed ends and first 200mm from each end, tight stickering 20mm at 300mm centres, start and finish stickering at very end of boards allowing zero overhang, place stack in permant shade with even ventilation, even weight to top of stack and protect from rain.

And allow plenty of time, oak needs to settle very slowly. 1" (25mm) thick per year at the quickest, a 65mm plank may need 3-5 years to air dry properly.

When i used to buy oak by the log, planked it could be up to 10 years old for furniture making.

Beautiful timber to work with, i worked in almost nothing else when i had my business.

Hi Steve, I've had a few logs and just as others have said it's ridiculously slow to dry and opens up voids through cracks in knots etc. if it is left in big chunks.
for me the silver lining was a lot that took so long to dry it developed some really good spalting and I have been making articulated fish like the one I gave you out of it (big seller). Also it is really sensitive to iron when it is wet, any iron touching it for more than a moment will cause strong blue/black staining. Len

I am using English Oak to turn parts for a spinning wheel resto and making a full new one.

English Oak is used in the UK mainly still wet for many things as it drys it tightens up. Wheelrights love it for wagon wheel hubs etc.

I like working with it what I have been using is well and truely dried.

Edited adding English Oak cut and stacked photo (Mod - I have reduced size, please do not post super sized photos)

Well, the wood fairy materialised today. Several of them. Turns out the oak is going to the Dorrigo Men's Shed. I have passed on your thoughts and they listened intently. We have agreed on a cutting strategy.
Thanks all for the responses.

regards
Steve.

PS Don't worry Len. I won't be giving them the recipe for articulated fish.

Originally Posted by Toymaker Len

Also it is really sensitive to iron when it is wet, any iron touching it for more than a moment will cause strong blue/black staining. Len

Forget about ironing, probably best to let it drip dry.

My refererence (Bootle) also states "Has a corrosive effect on lead and iron. It is advisable to use only non-ferrous metal in contact with the wood to avoid the formation of black iron tannate stains if the wood becomes damp."

You were right on the money Len.

Regards
Paul

I can't comment on the timber from a saw milling perspective, but having served a cabinet making apprenticeship, in the Arts and Crafts tradition, working almost exclusively in English Oak I don't get the negativity. I suspect the many British craftsmen working in the timber would agree with me. I would also have to say the idea of 65mm or 38mm minimum seems a bit strange.

The bulk of the timber we used was bought green and sawn through and through (is that the term?) as thin as 12mm thickness. As other posters have mentioned the ends were painted and a stacking lath (sticker?) was placed at the very end and then every 300mm. The rule of thumb was 1 year per inch thickness and I don't recall ever seeing a moisture meter. The timber was normally stored in the open stacked several logs high with a cover on top until some months before it was to be used at which point it was moved into an open airy shed that was in a more protected part of the yard.

I remember Oak as a fantastic material to work with. Just goes to show how different experiences inform our opinions.

I had an old english carpenter stop by one day and I said to him that I had all this english oak and every time I opened a bit of it up it was still sopping wet inside and this had been going on for years. So he thought about that for a bit and then he said "Well, we cut it into wooone inch plaaanks and then we leave it for seven year... and its always nice and dry when we go to use it..."
So Phil I think it is a wood that was suited to a slower time when wood stocks were prepared years ahead rather than weeks.
So what is the agreed cutting stratagy Steve ?
(my ten cents worth - cut the big log really thin say 15mm then double sticker it and strap it tight or load it with a couple of tons weight. Quarter the lumby branchy looking tops and throw them in the grass and I'll get them next time I,m up there)

I agree with the comment about negativity. I built my business using english and then mainly french oak. It us a fantastic wood to use and work, stable, clean finish after machining, robust enough to handle multiple operations around the shop.

But it takes time to prepare. Full cover, lots of air and time.

15mm oak has limited use, you need bigger sections for furniture making, hence 25, 38, 44, 50 and 65mm were my usual purchases.

It does stain on long contact with iron, but sticked with wood no problem. Just dont leave a chisel on wet oak for a day.

Wet or green oak is also great stuff, cuts like cheese, i did a lot of green oak structural work in france.

Oak is one of the top cabinetmaking timbers. At one time I used to buy it by the log (sawn) in 1/2" through 2-1/2" thicknesses. Up until about fifteen years ago, I used to mill my own oak (here in Melbourne) in the same range of thicknesses – particularly 1/2" stuff for drawer linings etc. In this country, oak needs to be dried out of the sun and as slowly as possible.

I've used some of Charlsie's oak and it's lovely to work with. I hope to use a lot more of it, but storage is a problem for me presently.

Finished cutting it up today. Some nice grain in the central billets. The group decided on 75mm and 100mm billets from the larger pieces and smaller sections from the limbs.
Someone put a couple of nails at about head height 50years ago and my saw showed them the light of day. Luckily there was no damage. They certainly stained the wood.

I think the discussion has been quite accurate with regard to English Oak. I counted only 60 growth rings in the base of the biggest log yet it was 1.2m in diameter. This would be a fast growth rate with some wide spacing in the early growth rings. I expect this oak will be less stable than slower grown examples and will require the careful seasoning techniques suggested.

cheers
Steve