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  1. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    23,274

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
    Having sat at the Canberra show for approx 8 hours I would say that the majority of people I saw were retired.
    We need more younger people that have an interest exceeding the use of an allen key from Ikea
    I was at the Perth show this year for about 6 hours, 5.5 hours of those were helping on the WA fine woodworking assoc competition display talking to the other FWWA members and public about the exhibits. The school kids entries were very impressive. Of the other half hour I spent 15 minutes talking to Boringgeoff on the HTPA stand and 15 minutes walking around trying to find something different from last years show until I got to the area where little kids were cutting up and knocking bits of wood together which was really good to see, even though it was also kind of sad. I kept saying to myself I should buy something from an exhibitor to support the show so that these really useful activities will keep running but I couldn't even bring myself to spend a few pennies at the McJing stand.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Not far enough away from Melbourne
    Posts
    3,136

    Default between a rock and a hard place

    yes, the shape of retail has changed. people buy online and dont go to shows. Shows used to be great because the retailers did demos and let you play with the toys. Now they dont, because if they are allowing people to use powertools on their displays then their insurance premiums would be so high that they could not afford to do it.

    Exhibitors have been forced to change what they can do at shows because of cost. If the exhibitors were able to do more demos and let people use the gear hands on, then they would probably make more sales. but they cant, so its just like shopping online - look but cant touch, or no different to visiting carbatec or hare and forbes etc at their showroom. All the exhibitors do is put their showroom in a container and unpack it at the show. Its not just the internet its their insurance that stops them doing more at shows. They would be paying heaps of public liability insurance just in case anything happens at the show in general and the individual exhibitors would be paying heaps to insurance companies as well,

    the insurer of the organisers would have a clause in the policy requiring that the organisers insist that each individual exhibitor have insurance as well, so they pick up bucketloads more business from policies purchased by exhibitors. Other insurance companies would benefit as well but they all work the same way and that is where most of the money from exhibitors and entrance fees for working with wood shows goes.

    Another reason that businesses are choosing not to be exhibitors is the way that they assess the success of a show. I bet most of them would look just at the sales they have made at the show offset by the cost of exhibiting. They would not be looking at people purchasing items post-show only because they were able to see and touch them at the show.

    If these issues can be addressed, them exhibitors could afford to exhibit, could do more to show off the features of their products and the organisers, exhibitors and general attendees would all get more out of the shows and they would once again be successful.
    Doug3030's Open Shed Day 2019 - Sunday 6 October 2019, Hoppers Crossing
    See here for details:
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f303/...-2019-a-224305

  3. #93
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,820

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    Another reason that businesses are choosing not to be exhibitors is the way that they assess the success of a show. I bet most of them would look just at the sales they have made at the show offset by the cost of exhibiting. They would not be looking at people purchasing items post-show only because they were able to see and touch them at the show.
    .
    This would be measurable if the vendors simply gave out a voucher which offered x% off or a free doo-dad upon ordering later.

    They regularly offer sales and invariably offer better prices at the show anyway, so this is no skin off their noses.

    This year I was tapped out pretty hard but I will buy later from some of the vendors. If they don't ask during the sale process online (which they invariably don't) then how will they know? They cannot blame the shows lack of sales, because they don't measure the post-sales marketing info.

    IDEA: Maybe the show itself can offer this. A unique redemption code that plugs into each vendors Website. When you buy the entry ticket online or get your entry ticket at the gate, a unique code is on the ticket. It's a single use, once off, percentage or dollar discount for a period of 4 or 8 weeks after the event. At sale via the vendors site, a callback REST API is used to confirm the tickets validity from a service on the organisers site. E.g. CANB-WWWS-123456EVAN.

    This would provide several things:

    -- Feedback to the show of post-show sales activity (usable in marketing activities and vendor hook-ins) e.g. $x in sales to VendorX within 4 weeks, or $x sales in NSW the following week
    -- Trackability of sales post-event for the vendor. (a simple matter of a report)
    -- encourage the public to provide the tracking detail at purchase as it 1) gives them a discount 2) shows the vendors their stands counted 3) is not big brother spying but a legitimate means of furthering the show

    WHY IS THIS IDEA COOL?

    -- it ties in the real world show into cyberspace (god I hate that word)
    -- overcomes issues as Trav outlined above
    -- lets vendors bring down heavy gear in anticipation of a sale (such as WoodTherapys enviable purchase of the Laguna SUV14)
    -- tracking galore. Reports. customer Value. long tail-end tracking (6 to 11 months long tail tracking for vendors? Hmmmmm)
    -- unique new code every year. Encourages return of vendors and public to each years show
    -- shows that people who attend the show might be tire kicking. They might be going to the show to see what's available, then buying later. In-show purchases are only one metric. Stops the chicken and egg scenario of "me no attend as me no sales" and "buyer no attend as vendors numbers small"
    -- encourages vendors to promote the show. Perhaps they can get X free tickets for cooperating plus the first N weeks reporting free or a free ticket to give away as a prize for even X post sales received.... (this encourages the store to promote the show if they get 100 free tickets to give away as they made 1000 sales....seems cheap to me)
    -- works offline too. A customer can bring the ticket stub into the store. The cash register grunt can apply the discount like they do any other. A record is kept by the register-grunt and the details can be entered by hand into the show manager site later that night by whomever does the daily reconciliations.
    -- the show managers become less reliant on gate takings in future years as they might stand making a cut of post-sales activity. If they can PROOVE that a show attendee spends $1254 at vendor X after the sale and $567 at vendor Y four weeks after the show....then they can both drop the ticket price to the public and maybe get a skim of sales....


    HOW HARD? I am a programmer and this is easy. Most vendors run one of a limited number of carts, so a plugin can be designed easily enough (ie easy to put on their site). The REST API and other work is no great headache.

    WHEN?..... GET IT IN PLACE FOR MELBOURNE .... You have a few weeks.

    MORE? The post is getting too long and looking more of a business case is needed. Happy to input to it or spec it out a bit more.

    What do you think fellow woodworkers? Would you do something like this?

  4. #94
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,820

    Default

    Oh yeah, this can be used for all shows, not just woodwork.

    I'd imagine the show organisers would be interested in that!

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bungendore
    Posts
    59

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    Just wanted to say that:

    -Mostly, people I know, hear about the Canberra show on the radio but my mother, who listens to the ABC 24/7 heard nothing. No one else I know heard anything either and not sure if it was even in the Canberra Times.
    -Businesses who usually have insurance that covers events outside of their own premises and so extra cost for insurance isn't a big cost.
    -Regardless of how many discounts are offered, if the public don't know the event is on, no one will come. It all falls to how to get people through the door as if no comes, no one even has a chance of selling anything.
    -Younger people are needed, yes. The ACT Woodcraft Guild is supporting the younger generation and their Young Achiever Award was just won by a 14 year old and the youngest member is 12. I do pyrography which has been attracting wives and children as it is safe and appealing.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Horsham Victoria
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    I loved the concept of the Canberra Wood Guild - fantatic to have all these disciplines come together under one group and be able to rub shoulders. I find dedicated goups such as 'woodturning' can be limiting and lacking in appeal particularly in smaller communities

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    belgrave
    Age
    56
    Posts
    7,939

    Default

    I guess what people want, and what people can make money from are two different things.
    anne-maria.
    T
    ea Lady

    (White with none)
    Follow my little workshop/gallery on facebook. things of clay and wood.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    used to live in Sydney, now it's Canada
    Age
    64
    Posts
    10,768

    Default a bit late to the party but my 2 cents anyway

    I didn't go to the 2012 or 2013 Sydney Shows because they clashed with an out of town commitment I couldn't move -- my problem not that of the organisers or exhibitors
    Before that I think I've been to every Sydney show since the first at which Colen Clenton exhibited his first squares -- in about 1996, IIRC

    In part I have been to so many shows that I have run out of "toys" to buy and recent shows have been a lot about saying hello to exhibitors met in years past. For me, more a social event that a retail day out -- which is appalling situation from an exhibitor's perspective.
    I understand that the timber sellers did a reasonable trade at Sydney, but not so other exhibitors.

    Another factor is that the show scene has evolved. 10 years ago, there was the wood show, the occasional Sunday market with a tool dealer or two, and Carbatech's show room. Now we have the show plus one or more "boutique" tool displays/ demos each year, plus the Sunday markets PLUS the "Bay".

    Perhaps, we need to recognise this and accept that for the shows to survive, they need to become special again.
    In turn this may require that the shows be less than annual events.


    other thoughts?
    regards from Canada

    ian

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    whale Beach
    Posts
    89

    Default just trying to answer all questions and responses

    There are many comments, suggestions that I have to answer, and apologies for being off the scene, at no time was it ever meant that I was disinterested in comments made through the forum rather for the last 6 weeks or so I have been home nursing my mother - sadly we lost her 3 weeks today.

    Please excuse me if I sound like I am repeating my remarks once again, but it seems on the forum we tend to go over and over the same ground. I am going to try and remain positive, give the facts and generally the way the land lies....... so here goes

    Canberra Show: a disaster - in my time as an organiser I have never run such a poor show. Not only did exhibitors get a bad return we were 50% down yes I repeat 50% down on gate sales - that hurts us as well as exhibitors. Opening day of the show imagine how we felt when the headline news in the Canberra Times (not word for word) was Canberra Heads for Recession - the article went on to point out how many Public Servants were going to loose their jobs and the flow on to the community as a result. The show was positioned a week before the elections and Canberra was grey! I don't mean the clouds here but rather anyone in Canberra you spoke to. One visitor told me of his business of how he was waiting on sign off for major government projects and nothing had happened since Gillard announced the election.

    We are still at the collating stage of all of the figures, but quiet simply if the public doesn't want a show and don't turn up well we can't put on that show and put both our exhibitors and ourselves at risk. Canberra has great similarities of Adelaide (we lost 60k there on our last show)...............watch this space!

    One comment on the forum was that you didn't know whether the show was going to be staged until a few weeks before the show - that is absolute rubbish and I am sure the person who made that comment belonged to the ACT Woodguild - if I am right the Woodguild suffered not one but several misfortunes and nothing was done to the stand or organisation until the acting president Dan returned from the US.

    Exhibitor Costs and Numbers: You know I can name at least 6 companies who exhibited last year at multiple shows and for various reasons are no longer in business - the economy has/is been tough..............just look around your shopping centres to see how many long term businesses are no longer there - yet you blame us for exhibition costs being cost prohibitive. Agree sometimes we may be too expensive for some small companies to exhibit, but we always try and work with our clients, and don't shut the door in their face without trying to work with them.

    Another reason for the lack of exhibiting companies................we have exhibiting companies 'on selling' their space to companies who used to take their own stand.......they get the revenue for that not us and take another stand off our floor and then we get criticised for failing exhibitor numbers.

    Marketing: when someone states that we can't get to them because they don't read industry mags, don't watch tv, don't read newspapers, don't listen to radio....what am I meant to do - honestly!! For those of you who do all or part of those aforementioned we do all of the main stream marketing for every show, as well it is supplemented with e marketing. I have listed this all before and I am not going to bore forum members again with the repeated message except to say again it hits where it hurts when we don't have people turn up to our events. Sturdee you better check with your club president I can assure you all clubs get emailed and if they don't have an email address we send material to allow you to pre purchase tickets at a discounted rate. I find it insulting that we are accused of 'sitting back and waiting for people to come in' - how far from the truth this is. You know we take pride in what we do, and to have to walk the show floor when our exhibitors are having a hard time is not one bit pleasant I can assure you.

    Getting the new generation to the shows: Again previously I have outlined our program, so in haste it includes schools programs, which include discounted student tickets, free teacher tickets work sheets and follow up/thank you with every attending school at the end of the program.

    IIATE in Sydney provided a fantastic student program and had high quality work displayed by students on the floor, as well as the student challenge which was between schools from all over the state.

    This year we have also embarked on a major promotional campaign with Men's Sheds. I can tell you their attendance has beaten any Woodclub or Forum offers by miles in all shows.

    Last year in Melbourne we included the Marimba's and kids were heavily involved in that. Thanks to the introduction from Neil. They also want to come back this year!

    Ideas put forward: I have always stated that we are open to any ideas and believe it or not we are listeners, and as already said we take pride in what we do and want to keep on improving. It was mentioned a shed or a trailer would be a good prize - we did have a shed full of tools worth $9,999.00 sponsored by VEK Tools at both Sydney and Canberra. We didn't have a trailer but did have the wheelbarrow. I like the trailer idea and will take that on board for next year, and will endeavour to get the Shed for all shows.

    Carrying on with the shed theme love the idea of having a photo display of sheds and getting the forum, clubs, Men's Sheds involved with that - on the agenda for next year!

    Build a box competition - I reckon we could do that as well - leave it with me and I will talk to our exhibitors about the pros and cons of that.

    The national Competition was mentioned - there was also a Woodworkers major competition in Sydney. We withdrew from that because the sponsorship was withdrawn and it meant we had to double our financial input to the competition and I wasn't prepared to do that. It also meant that it took one admin person at least 4months to prepare for the comp. We have received one complaint in the 3 years it hasn't been on.

    Workshop titles: nrb mentioned several different workshops - taken on board and again will discuss with our exhibitors to stage these. Just while we are on workshops, this years shows have more presentation/workshops than any other years. We don't just present the same program every year we request from presenters that the program change - you would see that Stan, Guilio and Theo's programs as well as many of the exhibitors involved change the program so there is something new at every show for you.

    A Turning Challenge: mentioned by tea lady - thanks it's on the agenda as well - great idea and now we just have to make it work.

    I think that's it................I don't want to whinge but really we are trying to work with you instead of against you after all I have always said in this game without exhibitors and visitors we don't have a show - we do value you

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    ACT
    Age
    80
    Posts
    2,439

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    Hi Liz,
    Thanks for giving us the information and please accept my condolences on your loss.
    Regards
    Hugh

    Enough is enough, more than enough is too much.

  11. #101
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Strathpine
    Age
    61
    Posts
    208

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    My Condolences on the loss of your Mum Liz

    However they are always in our heart
    Cheers Rod

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bungendore
    Posts
    59

    Default

    One comment on the forum was that you didn't know whether the show was going to be staged until a few weeks before the show - that is absolute rubbish and I am sure the person who made that comment belonged to the ACT Woodguild - if I am right the Woodguild suffered not one but several misfortunes and nothing was done to the stand or organisation until the acting president Dan returned from the US.
    Now I consider that just a bit rude. The Guild has plans in place for the show, usually, at the beginning of the year but the rumor every year is that it may not happen. Yes, there were misfortunes and it was dealt with but that did nothing to affect the amount of people that came through the gate.

    The wonders of modern technology mean that facebook can contact with lots of friends and family in the area and when many of them say they didn't even know it was on, that is feedback.

    Last year, there was a lot of advertising on the ABC radio but nothing was heard this year by those who listen 24/7.

  13. #103
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    3,260

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    Advertising-wise, these forums are the one and only way I'd ever hear about the wood show.

    I'm part of the demographic that has been disengaged by the actions of modern media; Canberra's commercial radio in the late 70's and early 80's was way too middle of the road so I never listened; commercial TV broke my TV viewing habits in the early 2000's with all the emphasis on 'reality TV' programming and the happy switching of (my favourite) program times/dates so that 'important' programs like Australian Idol could run overtime or be screened live.

    Foxtel has never interested me, since I don't understand sport (and I've never understood the idea of Pay TV...like...you pay for it but still get ads???); JJJ lost me as a listener as they became more mainstream (would they even consider playing 'Short Dick Man' now?) and as for 'targeted internet advertising'....well' I'd happily tell Google et al exactly what I'm interested in but apparently, that's too hard to track so they'd prefer to keep serving me ads about new cars, sporting events, overpriced computer systems and 'hot women in your area who want to meet you now!'. So ads got blocked.

    And in 40-odd years - I've never once purchased a newspaper. $30-50 a month on magazines at times, yes...but even that has gone now. I dropped Fine Woodworking when it did a rework to broaden its audience appeal (I liked its previous feel of snobbery, and how it thought spending 3,000 hours building a sleigh bed was quite normal), and the last magazine I was a regular buyer of stopped publishing earlier this year.

    Facebook? Yea, that massive privacy invasion is blocked at the router. The only PC in my house that can access it belongs to my daughter because the firewall exception is bound to her IP address.

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Parkside - South Australia
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    41
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    3,109

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    Wow Splinter ...... After taking all that on board it is clear that the wood show people certainly aren't trying hard enough.

    Perhaps they should fly a blimp above your house ...... But I guess you wouldn't look up when you go outside.
    Now proudly sponsored by Binford Tools. Be sure to check out the Binford 6100 - available now at any good tool retailer.

  15. #105
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Not far enough away from Melbourne
    Posts
    3,136

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    Liz, please accept my sincere condolences on the passing of your mother.



    Quote Originally Posted by Master Splinter View Post
    Advertising-wise, these forums are the one and only way I'd ever hear about the wood show.
    I agree, Master Splinter. I know about the shows because of this forum and the ads in Australian Woodsmith, even if they were advertising the wrong venue for Melbourne.

    Having found out about them from the forum I have been able to find their website and subscribe to the emails, but really without the discussion on the forums, I doubt that I would have bothered to look into it any further.

    Doug
    Doug3030's Open Shed Day 2019 - Sunday 6 October 2019, Hoppers Crossing
    See here for details:
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f303/...-2019-a-224305

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