Thread: The Future of the Wood Show

I think that it is just a sign of the times...

The economy is not as good as it was & so much more is now available via the Internet, IE Products, Information, Demonstrations.

I went to the very first TWWW show in Sydney when I didn't even have a computer let alone the internet.
I spent $2000 at that show & that was a lot of money back then.

I have been to 4 or 5 in Brisbane since but only if I could score a claimable expenses trip to Brissy & I bought hardly anything at the last one, it was just a big catchup with friends I've met on this forum.

I feel that we should all (suppliers & organisers as well) think about having smaller shows/demos/open days or even forum/club member get togethers with one or 2 featured artists/suppliers/tutorials/workshops/themes with more 'hands on' stuff & fellowship 'cos they are the things that can't be had via the internet.

More like a Timber & Working With Wood Share than a show. (Somebody tried something similar in Brisbane a few years back but it was too much like the show)

Granted that there will always be people who are too shy/scared to try in front of a crowd & there will always be those that are happy to pay money to be entertained but it is worth thinking about/discussing/exploring.

I have been to enough demos & shows for the rest of my life.

I'd still go to 'hands on' Turnouts like Prossy (not going this year, time & money) & get togethers like the ones that has where there is a theme.
The last one I went to was decorating turned objects.
Granted a lot of the info shared also came with info on where to get the stuff but if there had been somebody there selling stuff like paint, glue, glitter, resin, texturing tools, I'm sure they would have made some sales & got some exposure for other products that they sell.

Putting aside my commercial interests which I might add are not big enough to be involved in such an exhibition I might put forward the following as an observation.

The first round of WW shows were a novelty and woodworkers were drawn to them as it was a new thing. At that time the average woodworker had never seen such a display of his favorite tools etc in one place so he bought what he needed and BTW times were good and debt meant nothing. Since then the same person has not needed to repeat that buying spree and the new walk ins have not been so great in number to make up for it. Certainly the market would have an average population at any one time and once those in it have what they want so buying slows down from its first burst and what we are seeing now is the average of what it has settled to and in my opinion will stay at.

My personal experience is that I have enough tools and machines and I am not going to be investing in much more so why should I go to a woodworking show, it does not make sense. The only thing that I got out of the last one I attended was to meet a few old acquaintances who I had not seen for sometime and have lunch with them and a good lunch it was. BTW that was the sole reason I went and I did not buy a thing.

Then of course in the lifetime of the woodworking show we have had a huge uptake of internet buying, I can go to a woodworking show every day on my computer so that must also have an impact. The vendors know this so why waste their time and resources on what becomes a tyre kicking exercise and a lot of people who are looking and feeling and then going home and buying what they have just physically seen. Granted this only applies to smaller hand tools etc not larger machinery as a rule.

If the woodworking show was held every five years it might work as the novelty factor would re-emerge, maybe. My thinking is that unless the retailers in this country can devise a method of stopping OS purchases on the net then the shows as we know them are doomed. The leakage of money OS will only stop when the dollar drops to such an extent that it ceases to be viable to buy internationally and the reserve bank are pedaling furiously to get it lower. If the lower dollar does not happen then the international buying is only going to get bigger, the retailer suffers and he then cannot see any way to participate in these shows that has any benefit for him. Niche retailers who give exceptional service will always have a good customer base and some like myself generally only sell to a customer once and generally the internet buying form OS does not have a huge impact but those same retailers do not have the ability to take part in such shows.

Just a thought. There are quite a few small scale wood millers in Vic, perhaps these should be encouraged. We have the machinery and tools (though there is always room for more) and the raw material is what we need. There are some beautiful area-specific timbers out there.
Cheers,
Jim

That's a good thought Jim.

Alongside that, most 'connected' woodturners and many who are not source their own wood.

Chris's reading rings bells for me.

Overall, given the reduced spending power of baby boomers and the options available to buy cheaper online, the question for the future of the Show is: what's the value-add possible here? What can we do that clubs and individuals can't do, or do cost-effectively?

a comment from North of the Border
Family commitments prevented me attending the Sydney Wood show this year and are likely to do the same next.
I did get to the Canberra Show -- mostly because I was passing through the capital when it was on
I've been to every Sydney show since the first one Colin Clenton went to in the 90s.
three or four years ago I was talking to one of the vendors at the Sydney show who've I've bought from over many years. His take then was that -- in respect to power tools -- Festo was doing alright, but the lower price vendors were struggling against the $19.99 cordless specials carried by the big Green shed. I doubt if much has changed, which could explain why certain power tool vendors weren't at Melbourne.

For what it's worth
I've made a point of going to the last two hand tool events at the Sturt School in Mittagong and am seriously considering a trip to Melbourne in March for this Melbourne Guild of Fine Woodworking: 2013 Master Class Series
Maybe the future of the wood shows lies in smaller venues, targeted presentations and well known "key note" presenters. I certainly prefer theis style.
(I did ask the "Schwarz" if Sydney could be included on his Australian itinery but the answer was to the effect that Katy (his wife) would divorce him if he was away too long)

Scott unfortunately this is a recycled thread.

After every show there is someone or some group that come all negative about the show.

A couple of years ago when the last group who ran the show tried to get a marketing company with all the major show vendors together to work out how to move the shows forward.

When we listened to their response it was all bla bla bla, been there done that, no new ideas at all.

There was even a thread created here by Neil to get any feedback possible for the show organisers, but I feel the book that Neil created was filed in the lost drawer.

We still did not work out who they talked to but we were sure it was not woodies.

Brendan I did not pick on you specifically just answered a few observations.

For the show to go forward there does need to be more vendors and customers.

To have small dedicated shows can be good to a small majority and we find this with the small shows we do, but it does minimise the amount of variety of product on display.
As an example we normally have a display of 40sqm, at the major shows this year we averaged 150sqm but along with that comes more hands to help which also adds to costs. I sometimes think it would be good to just do a smaller setup but we know that all tools need to be demonstrated so you learn how to use them.
The likes of Gifkins, Colen Clenton Chris Vesper etc rely on a demo display to show of the worth of their tools, with out that demo the tools would sit on the shelves and look pretty.

So getting back to the original question what are you the general public going to do about the shows, who can you recommend to display at the shows, can you get your clubs to advertise in the papers and magazines that you will be there demonstrating and selling your wares.
To get the shows to move forward it is going to have to come from you guys , the show organisers work very hard at trying to do the best they can after all they are only a small business as well and no show means they go out of business as well.

Get on the phone to all the business that used to come to the shows and ask them directly why they do not attend, costs will be a major factor but if they were to get the sales the costs are minimised.

Just my prattle but we are LISTENING

Originally Posted by brendan stemp

The way I see it is they are getting smaller and smaller each year. I haven't seen what is happening in Canberra, Brisbane and Sydney but Melbourne seems to be going through a death of a thousand cuts. Each year for the past 5 the number of exhibitors is dwindling, the size of the stands are getting smaller (except Carrolls that will soon take over the whole venue), fewer timber merchants are attending, two notable ones weren't even at Melbourne (the Scobies and Tim Skilton) and groups that had free stands in the past are now being charged. And from what I hear, the numbers through the door is getting less and less.



This year at Melb.almost everyone I spoke to mentioned the notable lack of exhibitors and people wandering around. I would be very disappointed to see it vanish from the Woodies Calendar but fear this is exactly what will happen. The way it is trending I would be surprised if it was held in 2013.

i have never been to brisbane but generally go to sydney melbourne and canberra shows ... yes they are getting smaller and probably there are less people there

personally, i generally buy some wood, maybe some consumables and occasionally some accessories ... i have pretty well every tool that i want and am likely to get as others have said in posts

that said ... do you notice that carroll's area is increasing and they seem to be doing good business all the time ... staff there are interested and engage with the customer ... at one of the other stands (possibly local to melbourne or perhaps with brisbane staff) i stood with my wallet at ready for a few minutes while the staff chatted amiably among themselves ... at one which definitely came from brisbane, i had to interrupt the staff to buy something

i wondered why they bothered to travel that far if they weren't interested in trying ... and whether they now blame to shows/dollar/internet etc if they didn't do that well ...

i don't know which groups had free stands but if the are the clubs who also sell stuff, maybe they could pay a percentage of takings up to a maximum of what a stall would cost there ... it only seems fair if they are making something out of it (or like the schools and colleges advertising their courses) they should pay something ... i regularly take a friend to the canberra show and she almost always drops $300-500 at the club stands buying xmas presents ... why shouldn't they pay for that privilege


i guess times ARE harder for everyone though ... i do hope the shows survive

regards david

I used to attend every year when it was at Jeff's Shed. Went to the first one at the Showgrounds. Much better location but way down on exhibitors. Haven't been since. Was going this year but spoke to my local supplier. He said he wasn't going as it cost to much to set up an exhibit. Instead he opened his business on the weekend with specials.

From one South Australian woodworker point of view, I was recently told what a average size stall at our show grounds cost and I was staggered, for a company to pack up and travel here and then make a proffit would be next to impossible.
I believe that vendors such as the likes of Jim Carrol and similar sized company would have been treating such an expiditon as more of a good will exersise than one of making any money, I personally have enough tools and machinery to last 2 lifetimes so my main reason for attending shows is to stock up on consumables that I can not sorce locally, and to see demonstrations and or lectures/tutorials from some of our well known woodworkers, or even not so well kown.
My conclusion to this is that for woodworking shows not to end up like our no longer existing example, is for the organizers to use less expensive venues,
and there are plenty in SA maybe not as grand, but people don't pay to see the venue plus more hands on rather than just a big sales event

Originally Posted by BobL

I don't mind them being smaller and quieter as I dislike being jostled by hoards of people carrying around the latest useless house cleaning gizmo.
I realize these sales probably helps keep the shows afloat but if it's a choice between this and no show, I'll take the no show.

I liked the show this year with a few less exhibitors there was more room to push Mrs Phil around in her wheel chair and importantly she felt less intimidated because there was more room. It can be scary looking at a very crowded venue when all you cam see is peoples belly's, so for us it was an excellent show hope the next one is the same. I still got to by a new LN plane like I do every year, this year I was even able to have a conversation with the guys on the LN stand about my low angle smoother without being pushed aside.

So for me the balance was just right also the disabled parking was good, where it should be, hope it is the same next time.

At the end of the day it comes down to return on investment for the suppliers. We added in this year Canberra & Victoria to show support to the industry/community & it was a nightmare to try get suppliers to commit. A lot of suppliers don't mind coming even if they break even, but over the years due to a number of factors this has become very hard to achieve.

Some of the factors for Melbourne I think this year where the fact that a tool retailer there has a sale almost once a fortnight, making every day a sale day almost & the economy slow down has also had its effect

Originally Posted by VEK TOOLS

Some of the factors for Melbourne I think this year where the fact that a tool retailer there has a sale almost once a fortnight, making every day a sale day almost & the economy slow down has also had its effect

That is one thing I can't understand Carbi-Tec have a sale just before the show and then they are at the show, the one criticism I had about the show is that carbi-Tec should have more space their stand is always horribly over crowded with people it is hard to move around on their stand which makes it hard to purchase something. IMHO they should put their sale off until after the show to then move some of their show surplus stock. The way they do things now I can't see how they support the show, it is just an opportunity to sell things not showcase new products.

Originally Posted by Groggy

There has been a deliberate approach by some companies who do not attend the show any more to 'gazump' the Woodshow by holding events or sales approximately one week prior to the show. This takes away a number of customers from the show - why go to both?

There used to be a bit of a 'trade' element to the show, that disappeared a few years ago and now it seems to be the exclusive domain of the 'gentleman woodworker'. This may be a result of cheap imports and a reduction in local cabinetry businesses. Maybe someone with some marketing expertise could check this?

I attended the tradie expo in the same venue earlier in the year Melbourne what a difference there were huge crowds of tradies spending cash on new tools lots of which were for working with timber. there was government involvement re worksafe, apprenticeships, small business, etc. It was also cleaner (no smells of livestock) and the air recycling seemed to function. Parking had similiar issues as the woodie show though.

WWW (Working With Wood) Show.

Some fellas might even call it the WWW (Walking Without Women) Show
as they like to stroll and purchase without the missus in tow.

However I observed many womenfolk strolling around, on their own, who
obviously have a keen interest in wood. I introduced a few to the Forum
activities and feel confident some will join up and participate.

Perhaps the organisers could include wool/craft within the exhibition and
therefore make it a day out where both husband and wife could view
the exhibits. Who knows, we may get and Ken Wraight doing a
display of knitting for the ladies.

Perhaps worth considering.

Allan