Thread: The Future of the Wood Show

There is a future for the Shows, but there really needs to be a shakeup in the management/organisation sided of things. There are simply too many layers in the organisation - venue owners, show 'managers', vendors and lastly, the public.

It may be a big ask, but would it be possible for a consortium of several major vendors to undertake the direct organisation of the show? That would cut out one layer of cost increase for the vendors, although it would also bring a layer of financial risk if the show flopped badly.

Originally Posted by bsrlee

....It may be a big ask, but would it be possible for a consortium of several major vendors to undertake the direct organisation of the show? ....

Does this not become a risk that only vendors that have certain products will then attend and the opposition being large or small will not be allowed to attend?

I used to enjoy the woodworking show when it was at the Exhibition Buildings in Carlton. There were always plenty of exhibits to watch that I wouldn't normally see and there were usually special deals (not that I'm a cheapskate) which were great sweeteners.

I'm with John G; if all the show is offering is the same as on-line shopping, then I'm more likely to shop on-line. The only thing that piqued my interest at the show was a new 300mm double-action clamp from Bahco. I enquired of the vendor if they were available in longer lengths and was told they were, but none had been brought to the show because…

I asked what the delivery cost on twenty long clamps would be from Sydney to Melbourne (thinking the delivery cost might be waived considering the quantity and the fact it was 'the show' and I felt the salesman and myself had struck a chord). "We'd have to check the shipping when we get back to Sydney" was the response. I found a better deal on-line when I got home.

The last few times I have attended the show were really just to support Neil and Jim; to say hello to them and to Groggy, who does a sterling job; and to support the forum in general. The show is virtually the exclusivity of the forum: Nobody else seems to be aware of its existence.

If I do attend another woodworking show, I would want to see a myriad of things that I can't normally see on a daily basis. I want to be entertained and enthralled. How about a country show type of event in a country setting where you could sit down on the grass or bales of straw at your leisure and soak up the smells and sights?

Perhaps there could be some interesting timber industry exhibits; an old style bullocky and team; a display of those dangerous looking vintage saws; interactive traditional fencing, green woodworking and pole turning (come away with your own three legged stool); a full array of modern portable saw mills (with timber sales as the sawing progresses); competitions from furniture making to turning (no pens though!); mortice and tennon races; hand saw races; even terrier racing (I'd rather watch terriers tearing up the lawn – and each other – than see multiple diamond-toothed vendors with personal mics marketing useless aluminium vices and kitchen knife sharpeners!); and children. What's the future of woodworking if the young aren't involved and encouraged? Schools should be invited to display their students' work and not just send a disinterested class of untidy youths along who are on a free period.

The retail stands should be the side shows and not the main event and they'd seriously need to enter into the spirit of the event or just stay away! The show needs to focus on being visitor oriented again and stop being a half-hearted opportunity for (largely) lacklustre vendors.

This is a copy of a statement I made elsewhere to a question posed to Woodshows.

I believe that some vendors find it hard to relate to levels of people through the gate at Wood shows.
Business and Tradies, these two strike deals for equipment when and if they needed it and economy plays a big role they go to shows if real bargains are going to be there. ( I have two sons with in industries which are doing it hard ATM new machines buying is out). Why so? many others are closing their doors auctioning off to recoup debt payments.
Employed persons who are hobbiest/artisans, the new age of middle age workers still out there in the work force paying mortgages etc yet are grand parents maybe.
Self funded retirees with money to burn want top notch equipment who are setting themselves up in a home workshop. Then realise so are thousands of others doing the same thing.
Retired pensioners and such on SS pensions who are hobbiest also but budget has its limits this group is the largest of all and becoming bigger. Its these people who are least liked by vendors as they are seen as tire kickers.
The other big problem is "WE are not a population of 90+ million" but just over 24Mill (this includes kids). Therefore the market has its limits.

One matter which greatly came to mind after posting this is size of shed/workshop and storage. Many these days only have a single garage for their workshop this often is a shared space for the whole family. Down sizing is relevant to lifestyle, income and demand with the demand to reduce SS pensions, rising rents and costs and keep the pensions low the tire kickers will have less to spend.

We had a shocker of a year financially and the Woodshow is not the only thing that we did not attend due to cost for us (without Freebies) it would have cost form door to door for 2 approx $100 for the day without buying anything. This includes transport, (public not an option), parking, entry, sustenance (even if we took our own it still costs plus carting it round).


The event is called "Timber and Working With Woodshow" there in lays the nature of what people expect to see.


The comment in relation to ladies Craft and Woodwork don't work together is a load of bull.
Western Sydney Woodies often are present at Craft fairs selling well their works and taking on tasks ladies request. I also know 4 other clubs in Sydney who attend demos about venues such as Bunnings, Historical homes, fairs/fetes, regional shows.
Newcastle had the ideal situation two sheds one for each its just a pity weather took its toll for the woodwork side. They are also at a number of open days about the Sydney region.


As for major vendors I feel for them greatly the woodshow may not be the only show they do in a year but often people only see that its the woodshow they should be at for these vendors H&F, Carbatec, Vek, Gaweld, etc etc its numerous shows.

I see this thread was started last week - I have been on site at one of our other shows so apologies for the delay in response. It's amazing not sure any of you realise just how much energy, time and not too mention money go into putting on these shows for you lovers of timber and its craft. I am truly disappointed in some of the comments - we welcome constructive criticism but to read many of these comments you are well on the way to destroying Timber Shows. I am going to answer each comment as it deserves:

Brendan Stamp: The shows are getting smaller and smaller - have you ever stopped to think its not in our interest to have a small show either by exhibitors or visitors to the show. We do our utmost to attract exhibitors, and visitors and any decline it hits our bottom line. Are you aware what's happening in the marketplace - ask anyone from any industry sales are down - its a tough market anywhere in Australia at the moment!

Stands are getting smaller - so what the exhibitor is still there and paying for what they can afford.

The Scobies and Tim Skilton: The Scobies were only at the show after we had taken ownership - we introduced them to the show as something new. They presented for 2 years.

Tim Skilton: when we took over the shows you all complained they were the same old same old - Tim Skilton had been there for many years. So we change and you are still complaining.

Free Stands: yes we asked the clubs to pay $250.00 towards their stand this year. Not one club other than a Melbourne Club complained. This is the cost of doing business. The clubs still get more FREE tickets to give away than any paying exhibitors, they receive as much publicity as they want to give us in fact they receive all of the benefits that PAYING exhibitors have. We realise the benefit from clubs but as i said not ONE club any where else complained about the $250.00 fee. Some of these clubs are given upwards of thousands of dollars FREE Space for $250.00. We like clubs and you know many of them appreciate what we do for them, but we were at a stage financially they had to contribute.

You say nothing seems to change much: with respect i believe that is a contridiction - 2 sentances ago you mention the lack of the Scobies and Tim Skilton, we changed them. We have also totally changed the program - tell me did you ever see Guilio or Theo in the previous owners program, did you have Come Try and Learn. You had the two Richards for many many years with no change. We have had the shows now for 4 years and changed the program at least twice in that time - our mandate (you all told us you wanted this) is to keep the shows fresh and alive.
New Exhibitors: We had a number of new exhibitors: Japanese Tools, VEK Tools, Feast Watson, GC Enterprises, Marine Timbers, Screw IT, Swarts Tools, Men's Shed, to name a few.

If you openly throw negative comments about the show the way you have, you are right there will be no show as i am sure you know negative comments flow faster than positive!

RSSER: Thank you for your comments and glad you saw something NEW and appreciated the Come Try and Learn

HUGHIE: Don't know who you have been speaking to but the Sydney Show was a fantastic show...............thanks Jim for endorsing this further on!

Managed by the wrong people: thank you for your lack of confidence! I would love to make a good return on these shows.............wonder if you have thought about the costs involved in putting these shows on - all up front costs and many times the exhibitors do not pay until opening - venue rent, marketing dollars (for Melbourne in excess of 100k) presenter fees, travel and accom, build of shows, signage, rigging,insurance, catering,(we provide an exhibitors lounge and drinks on Friday night) YOUR forum lounge which includes tea, coffee and water at all shows, and the list goes on.

CHAMBEZIO: you haven't been to a show for years, you also mention lack of money to go................have you guys ever stopped to think how many other people are like Chambezio and haven't been able to go. Great to see you plan to go next year. Send me a private message and i would love to send you a free ticket for the show you choose to go to.

BoBL: If its a choice you would take no show! your choice and negative comments such as yours don't help.

SJM: glad you came this year - you mention you could have easily brought 'your something' on line, and you are probably right, but lets stop and think for a moment, could you have engaged in conversation online about the product you were buying, could you have touched it - and what about the exhibitor's who are at the show presenting their skills - all of the expert advice they are there to give you FREE face to face. One thing exhibitions provide you are the 5 senses no other advertising medium does that including online.

GROGGY: one show in eastern and western suburbs in alternate years: like this suggestion but need to find a venue.

STRUNGOUT: glad to see you agree with what i have said is happening in the Australian economy at the moment.

SCOTT: I have already mentioned the Scobies, the Wooden Boat Association decided they could not pay for the space and i felt it was totally unethical to let them have FREE space when the other clubs were paying.................my decision and i was comfortable with it. I have already listed new exhibitors. Hare and Forbes have not exhibited for the last 2 years, Chris Vesper had a symposium in the US which clashed with the show dates, but his tools were on Lie Nielsen's stand.

Re No Show in 2013: I really get sick of this, rumours again. Every year we face this. Why don't the faceless cowards (yes they are) say it to our face rather than have joy in spreading negative rumours.

After reading this we are open for offers from any of you who think you can do a better job and prepared to take the financial risk just let me know!!!!!!! Sorry but this is just too much negatively in what has been an extra tough year.

Unfortunately this theme seems to pop up every year which is sad. I would think however that it is useful to have the input of the end users to help evaluate the show.

Having moved to Adelaide 2 years ago and arriving on the day of their final woodshow, and have attended Melbourne on numerous occasions, it has been a few years from my last show but here are my comments for what they are worth.

1. It is interesting to note that a lot of the negative comments on these forums are from experienced members who have been into woodworking for a number of years and have attended the show numerous times. Occasionally you get a new member who is attending their first show who comment on how great that it was. It is interesting to think back to your first or second show when everything was new, you had an entire workshop ahead of you to fill out, and the cash to spend. I personally had a great time at the show in the first and second year with the purchase of a bandsaw, orbital sander and a few other larger items, as well as dreaming about the tablesaw that I will get just down the track. Now that I have basically all of the machinery that I need I have less interest in looking at a new tablesaw when I already have one (after all, unlike technology upgrades, it isn't often that you are tempted to upgrade to the next must have tablesaw). Downside: For the woodshow is that people like me are not going to be spending big dollars on new machines, exhibitors are not getting a return on their investment and stop bringing all of the tools. People like me will be more interested in demonstrations and instructional classes, something I cannot easily get elsewhere.

Solution: Generate more interest in woodworking to encourage new people into the hobby. Each show needs to try and generate a new influx of the first show virgins who are ready to take the plunge and invest in the new tools. Not an easy task!

2. No offense to anybody, however from the majority of the photos of the show I have seen there seems to be a heavy weighting towards the older male. People have already commented on the constraints of pensions and the like impacting on spending, however I think just as big of a concern is the lack of younger people taking an interest in the hobby (relates to item 1 above).

3. Coupling the show with a similar interest show has great merit. This will increase foot traffic, fill the space, hopefully lower rates for exhibitors, increase door sales and hopefully open up woodworking to a new group. To be honest I think a "craft (quilting or the like) / woodwork show" is not the right path. Sure you could take the view that the "wives" could go to the craft show and the "gents" can be exposed to the woodshow. I am no expert however I think the age demographic of the "craft" show will be similar to the woodwork show, which is unlikely to expose the hobby to the next generation (obvious widespread generalisation but I think you get the idea). If coupling the show it needs to be with a feed-in type nature. This forum is a prime example with its sister forum - Renovation. The woodshow perhaps has already missed the boat when the home renovation was at its peak a few years ago, however coupling the woodshow with a renovation show would increase the crossover of buyers. My wife attending a craft show at the same venue as a wood show is unlikely to go over to Festool and buy a sander, however if it was a renovation show and there was a demonstration on how to polish floorboards (or something similar) I am sure that Festool would get a purchase (doubling their exposure from the one stand). It is harder to sell a mitre saw to somebody who has just sat through a demonstration on cross stitch compared to somebody who has just been given a run through on the basics of constructing a new deck.

I know from personal experience when renovating a house, how useful my woodwork knowledge, and tools has been. It is not a huge leap for a renovator who is looking at putting in their own wardrobes to buy a tablesaw, or a mitre saw. After the renovations have been completed they already have a huge foothold into taking on woodworking as a hobby through the increase exposure to woodwork. I would think that the age demographic of renovators would typically be lower than a craft show with many young people trying to break into the property market and trying their hand at renovations themselves to keep the costs down.

4. Stu's Shed posted an interesting comment about guest speakers or perhaps master classes. The likes of Chris Schwarz, Norm Abrams, Marc Spagnuolo were mentioned. I think this is a great idea for those who have limited interest in new tools and would be a major draw card. I would travel over to Melbourne to sit in on a presentation from these guys. Not to say that we do not have talent in Australia, however for people who have been around the block a few times most Australian talent has been seen. This will be difficult to be achieved due to the cost involved, especially as whilst it may increase foot traffic, it may not increase the dollars spent at the show through exhibitors. Perhaps initially something like this needs a separate cover charge and bookings for a seat, however the quality of the space, and coverage of the presentation in terms of audio and screens would need to be much improved on the current demo setups. Perhaps in a different room away from the background noise and the like. If you think how much it costs to go to the movies these days - $20 for an hour or so sit in on one of these presenters would represent good value for money. The difficulty is obviously having the number of shows spread out across the year!

5. For experienced woodworkers the show needs something that is difficult to get online or locally. This is typically timber and not just woodturning blanks. Unfortunately this is not an easy thing to transport however I know that for the last few shows I have been to I have had a job or two in mind and would have loved to have the opportunity to pick some timber however the choices were limited to slabs or turning blanks.

6. I tend to attend the woodshow (when I can get there), or other local woodshows to show my support for the hobby on the understanding that if there are not people through the doors then the doors will close which will be a huge loss for people thinking about taking up the hobby (I do a similar thing with an Australian woodwork magazine that I don't particularly get a hell of a lot out of but I would be sad to see it go). Unfortunately my attendance has limited impact as like many I don't need to make any more large purchases, even small purchases are just as easy to make on the internet when I need them - and I know they will be available. For me demonstrations and hands on is what is important, however unfortunately this does not really help the exhibitors so I think that the door price needs to stay to help cover costs, recoup some costs from the likes of me.

I would love to see the show evolve and improve and hope that any suggestions made are seen in the light of wanting to keep the woodshow going and not just kicking something for the fun of it.

Cheers

Stinky

Agree with Liz: a big value-add for me is to get informed advice from a tool maker/seller and maybe see how a tool performs in practice. Some tools you make friends with as they say, and you can't get this knowledge from the interweb.

A second plus which has waned somewhat in value for me as I progress in my discipline is to see the demos and talk with the demonstrators. Always lots to learn from those highly experienced folk. Guilio's demo 10 years ago got me hooked on turning and I still love to see the little fella rip into lumps of wood.

Liz has been working hard and listening to feedback here and elsewhere for some time to make the show a success. As long as revenue at least covered costs for those with an investment in it, then financially the Show is viable.

I know a lot of folk are on a tight budget; but in terms of what you can learn at the Show the $15 entry makes it a bargain. Maybe Liz you should double that. (A common enough marketing strategy; if folk think it's cheap they often think it's no good).

Some good stuff there Stinky. About the young - how many schools organise trips to the show. Are block bookings at cheap rates available? There must be some interest there looking at the ones who ask questions on this forum.
With timber there probably is an opportunity for carriers to make some money out of those with limited space in their cars.

Originally Posted by jimbur

About the young - how many schools organise trips to the show.

School trips are a good introduction for the kids to get a taste, however they are not really the ideal target young group for the show initially. Obviously they have limited spending power, and typically out of a group of 30 kids dragged along only 1 or 2 would show any genuine interest with the others just taking the opportunity to be away from school. Walking around a show with a bunch of tools on display is not really going to engage school aged kids, they would need to be able to see where woodworking can take you either as a hobby or a job. Again this is through demonstrations, hands on and viewing completed work. Whilst this does get covered by the current show arrangement it doesn't really help with purchases from exhibitors, who are required to contribute the bulk of the funding to keep the show viable.

With school groups, generally they would have subsidised entry fees, they would not contribute greatly to exhibitor expenses through spending, and basically they are just getting cheap demonstrations and hands on activities ....... mmmmm I guess a bit like me.

The school age kids are important for long long term growth, however in my opinion the key group is the under 30's with high disposable income, no kids and plenty of time to get out in the workshop ........ mmm sounds a bit like me 10 years ago .

School group block bookings were available IIRC.

And the recruitment/replacement question is one that exercises a number of woodie's clubs.

In Vic we've seen a huge decline in 'manual arts' subjects offered in schools since the abolition of the techs. Their minor resurrection in other forms will do little at a guess to introduce new generations to woodwork.

Don't get me started on the closure of tech schools Ern.
It's probable that we are seeing the results of it in the forums. Everyone of my age (oldish) left school with a surprising amount of basic woodwork knowledge and skills that only needed honing and brought up to date in later life. Some of the questions on the forums appear to demonstrate this lack of basics - thank god they are asked though.

Yeah.

But techs had their downside as well. Viz. streaming and ghettoising the kids who didn't respond well to an academic curriculum. That's a whole new topic in a way but I'd love to see academic stuff taught better and manual subjects better represented. It's not either heads OR hands; it's both.

In terms of this thread, Liz was most stung by Brendan's initial post.

The future of the Shows prob. lies in her hands.

There have been lots of good suggestions for variation in the model or how to develop a sustainable model; keep 'em coming.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

Perhaps there could be some interesting timber industry exhibits; an old style bullocky and team; a display of those dangerous looking vintage saws; interactive traditional fencing, green woodworking and pole turning (come away with your own three legged stool); a full array of modern portable saw mills (with timber sales as the sawing progresses); competitions from furniture making to turning (no pens though!); mortice and tennon races; hand saw races; even terrier racing (I'd rather watch terriers tearing up the lawn – and each other – than see multiple diamond-toothed vendors with personal mics marketing useless aluminium vices and kitchen knife sharpeners!); and children. What's the future of woodworking if the young aren't involved and encouraged? Schools should be invited to display their students' work and not just send a disinterested class of untidy youths along who are on a free period. s.

FWIW;
The Perth Wood show had a display of milling gear and all day milling demo (although the guys doing it didn't have much of a clue - I posted some photos in the milling section) and milled timber sales.
There was also a supervised area where little kids were making something - I reckon that was excellent ?
The Fine woodworking Association of WA sponsors a competition and display which has open and School student levels.

RE: – see multiple diamond-toothed vendors with personal mics marketing useless aluminium vices and kitchen knife sharpeners!
I agree, but they probably mean the difference between the shows running or not.
Despite this I reckon the Perth show is still value for money and time, and do promote it to other woodies and people that ask me about it.
I don't expect anyone to cater for my ochlophobia, but I do expect to freely be able to say on this forum why I am unlikely to go in the near future.

Liz I am sorry you find negative comments only hurt the show and your business. Don't feel to bad as its training that does this. Having been to training sessions which demands people who have negative issues be side stepped heralded as trying to bring the business down, always look at the positive sorry demanding always look at the positive side. Well many companies over the years who have stood by these standards no longer exist. Why they didn't listen with open ear open minds to ALL whom they sort comments from. Why they only wanted to be praised. I blame the John Cleese era of management training we still suffer the stupidity (I went to one session and walked out).

Trouble is often these negative ones are the ones who can open their eyes to reality and see both it form various perspectives.

Sydney show was a case of Venue change and date changes x3 one of which had to be pointed out that it was the last weekend of School holidays which would have had NO schools other than maybe private attend this does not include TAFE, Collages or Uni students.

As for OS demonstrators and the like yes we do have an abundance of our own talented people here some on this forum who have openly expressed their opinion as 1 a member of this forum 2 a well known artisan 3 a teacher 4 a vendor and you have done nothing but shot him down.


To the gents whom feel craft has no place with in woodwork "Woodwork IS a Craft" if you have done a trade you can become a Craftsman.

I suggest you look at what these people use especially the ladies. Spinning wheels/various parts for same, knitting needles, drop spindles, hat pins, shawl pins, needle point frames, quilt racks, tables, lace bobbins, easels, Looms, shuttles the list could go on. Having been at the OTGA stand and about other stands of groups when people come up and ask for "Can you guys make me this" quite often women but not always I have had a boot make come up and ask about making wooden Lasts? One fellow ask 2 of us if we could go into production making feet for jewelry boxes the feet were 10mmx10mm (pine).


Hence my comment re "Working with Wood" its not just about making things people do come through the doors in hope of buying gifts, what they need, finding someone who can produce what they need, gaining a contact to do so.

This forum owner started up a Craft forum I believe it also had a wood section I don't know if that forum still is about I lost the link.