Thread: The Future of the Wood Show

Originally Posted by Christopha

SUPPORT them in their efforts to give us what we bloody want

The trouble is everyone wants something different. Someone should start that thread and I will share Fred's popcorn.

Incidently...a Wood and Metal show is on in march next year(Sydney) at Rosehill garden racecourse on 7th-10th.....hmmmmm competition...maybe folk should support it as well...

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Incidently...a Wood and Metal show is on in march next year(Sydney) at Rosehill garden racecourse on 7th-10th.....hmmmmm competition...maybe folk should support it as well...

Already been tried , a dismal failure

Originally Posted by Jim Carroll

Already been tried , a dismal failure

It's not on until march next year Jim....not a failure yet mate...but if everyone carries your belief,then i guess it will be!!!

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Incidently...a Wood and Metal show is on in march next year(Sydney) at Rosehill garden racecourse on 7th-10th.....hmmmmm competition...maybe folk should support it as well...

I for one would support that. just lately at least I have done very little woodwork, but am spending all my shed-time doing metalwork, and all the metal work I am doing is in support of my woodwork hobby.

In any case, look at how much metalwork gear Carbatec had on their stand.

Doug

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

It's not on until march next year Jim....not a failure yet mate...but if everyone carries your belief,then i guess it will be!!!

It was tried in Brisbane a couple of years ago and was total flop, organisers and exhibitors suffered terrible losses. No one turned up and this had very extensive advertising. Most exhibitors wanted to go home saturday night and not waste another day on the sunday.

With what I have seen so far there is a very small area cordoned of for both the metal and wood show so if you see anything it will be very minimal.

I personally do not think there is enough population and money to spread over two shows in one city, the context of this thread is proving that.

Originally Posted by Jim Carroll

It was tried in Brisbane a couple of years ago and was total flop, organisers and exhibitors suffered terrible losses. No one turned up and this had very extensive advertising. Most exhibitors wanted to go home saturday night and not waste another day on the sunday.

With what I have seen so far there is a very small area cordoned of for both the metal and wood show so if you see anything it will be very minimal.

I personally do not think there is enough population and money to spread over two shows in one city, the context of this thread is proving that.

I hope the Wood and Metal show is a great success, next year in Sydney....the concept is cool,and it is something new and innovative...competition is a healthy dynamic in business jim,so hopefully the Sydney wood/metal working fraternities support this show..and it will in turn, support you...

I really do not see how a combined woodwork/metalwork show would be a bad idea. Ok, so its been tried and apparrently widely advertised and was still a flop. there are other reasons events arent supported. I am not familiar with the event so I will not comment for fear of drawing a wrong conclusion, but there could be other reasons than popularity of the concept.

Thinking of other shows that I regularly attend in Melbourne, they are all seeming to be combining or adding other themes to widen their appeal in the current climate. I like to get away for a week or two a year in the 4wd ute and go camping. There is no 4WD camping show any more. They are all camping, boating, 4wd, fishing, camper van, mobile home, caravan, outdoor leisure, barbeque shows now. they have morphed and are surviving, but I have to walk past a lot of sites that I have no interest in to find the ones I came to see.

I ran my own business for 10 years. I sold and manufactured concrete garden edging on site in Bundaberg. I used to attend a show put on by a local Rotary club every year in the first weekend in Sepember. The first time I exhibited there it was called the Bundaberg Garden Expo​.
An outdoor sits 10m x 5m cost $200.00 for the 3 days. (1999). 10 years later it had morphed into the Bundy in bloom home, garden, outdoor, camping and fishing expo It was still the same price, had still the same number of exhibitors, but the interest groups were watered down. The organisers would respond to any inquiry from an exhibitor about fewer inquiries by saying that the numbert of attendees was the same or sometimes more, but the reality is that there may have been more attendees but they were not coming through the gates to look at my product. they were there to watch a fishing demonstration.

Carbatec sell mainly woodworking tools but they also sell a lot of metalworking tools that are well within the reach of the home hobbyist who wants to do both. Hare and forbes sell stuff that just boggles the mind when I go up to the back half of the showroom. Metalwork tools tend to be bigger and heavier than woodwork tools so this puts the cost of attending at a higher rate than woodworking tools vendors

Liz and other organisers, fellow forum members, I know I am posing more questions than I am answers and that is generally not what i like to do, but I really do not have any answers to this dilemma.

The discussion is interesting and stimulating. It is highlighting that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to running a successful show. maybe someone with too much free time could design a poll to get a consensus on what we all want out of a show? I know some posters within this thread have been criticised for the percieved negativity of their posts. I just want to point out that even negative posts can contain very valuable feedback and should not be ignored. People do not pay admission to enter a show just so they can go online and post a negative review. the fact the they post at all indicates that they feel strongly about the event.

If I was the organiser I would be grateful for EVERY post on here that is critical of the show's performance. At least the poster cares enough about the event to bother to air his grievances. those that were unhappy and do not care about the event are the ones who shrug their shoulders and go home and never come back again.

Those who care enough to complain will probably come back, even if just to see if the organiser repeats the mistakes. those who do not care that much will not even bother to look it up on the web next year.

Doug

So many different perspectives and so few resolutions.

Let me start by making a statement: I have been to one Sydney show (many years ago) and the last two Brissy Shows. I have certainly not counted exhibitors and have no knowledge of numbers through the gate. It was my distinct impression that the shows were getting smaller in terms of exhibitors and less crowded in terms of visitors. Purely a subjective observation, but made well before this thread became the patter on a keyboard.

For what it's worth, SWMBO, who accompanies me on these visits so I don't become distracted in the big cities, agreed with me and she's never wrong .

I think everybody has to agree that the economic situation is poor and that the nature of retail has changed dramatically with the rise and rise of the internet. This is going to make life tough for these events. It is simplistic to ignore it, even though it may be unpalatable.

The organisers need to make a profit. Without that economic outcome, the event falls over. The irony is, and I sympathise with Liz Falloon here, that the tougher it gets the more work goes into the organising. I know the frustration she must be feeling. Long hours for less return. However she must neccessarily listen to us as well.

We won't all be right in our assessment of the problem although most of us will touch on something that is wrong. We should not forget to mention those things that are right too.

The exhibitors (retail) need to break even if they can. This is difficult. If they didn't regard it at least partially as a PR exercise, I doubt that too many would do it.

For the visitors, and this includes many different categories, they want to be entertained. This could be simple "retail" therapy, the gaining of knowledge, discussion with like-minded people (most of us are gregarious particularly when it comes to a common interest) or just passing the time of day.

I personally think it is a mistake to focus on a single group such as the older woodworker possibly in retirement or coming up to retirement. Look towards the associated groups such as the renovators. I have no hestitation in buying an expensive tool because I will save that money many times over by doing a job myself.

The schools are important. Ok, a subsidised rate, but still numbers through the gate which helps the organisers if not the retailers. The important point is they are the renovators five or ten years down the track. They may be the woodworkers, but not all of them. Get them interested now. They are the future.

If every woodworker brings their partner you have increased the visitor number exponentially (ehh...just make that double so think in terms of what could be of interest in associated fields. I think the food and drink situation could be revisited (I am talking Brissy here). I certainly wasn't encouraged to sit down and have a meal. There was nothing I could describe as coffee for example.

If the wood shows are to compete with a retail outlet or the internet they need to be a destination. A female friend of mine close to eighty would say it needs to be "fancied up."

I travel about a 400km round trip to get to the show. However, although I will go back next year as long as it does not conflict with my work commitments, this year felt a little flat. That was my overiding impression. Remember too that perception is reality even if that perception is wrong.

Regards
Paul

PS. I fall in the category of woodworker close to retirement (but unlikely to), renovator and school boy (in terms of maturity and denial).

I'm more used to country shows in the past where the showgrounds usually had a multiplicity of display sheds and are a great attraction to vendors or food and entertainments as well as the public. In more recent times I've noticed the popularity of farmers' markets on one hand and events like the Bendigo swap meet. Garden/needlework/crafts/woodwork - it's amazing what can work together, even tractor pulls and axe competitions.

Originally Posted by doug3030

... it had morphed into the Bundy in bloom home, garden, outdoor, camping and fishing expo It was still the same price, had still the same number of exhibitors, but the interest groups were watered down. The organisers would respond to any inquiry from an exhibitor about fewer inquiries by saying that the numbert of attendees was the same or sometimes more, but the reality is that there may have been more attendees but they were not coming through the gates to look at my product. they were there to watch a fishing demonstration.

I think that this is the key with a combined show. It isn't difficult to pick two interest groups that go together, however it is more tricky to get two interest groups that are compatible from not only an interest point, but also how it will be able to benefit exhibitors from the crossover effect. Sure you could put woodworking with a cake making show (after all who doesn't like cakes?) and this may get twice as many people through the door (increasing door entry sales), however it will do little to help the likes of Carrolls or Carbatec who still face the same issues as today.

Metal working increases exposure to Carbatec and Hare & Forbes which both carry metal work lines and this will increase the number of visitors to their stands, and hopefully turn over. As mentioned earlier renovations have perhaps even a closer link to woodworking with finishes, joinery, timber etc.

It is a difficult balance between the organisers being able to turn a profit through door sales and exhibitor fees and exhibitors being able to turn a profit (or at least break even from the shows). Increasing door numbers through incompatible show elements will do little to keep the woodworking exhibitors interested which is one of the keys to a successful woodshow.

It certainly is much easier steering the ship when you have no involvement or knowledge of the background issues and I certainly do not envy the hard work required by the organisers.

Originally Posted by Jim Carroll

Scott unfortunately this is a recycled thread.

After every show there is someone or some group that come all negative about the show.

Brendan I did not pick on you specifically just answered a few observations.

For the show to go forward there does need to be more vendors and customers.

Re 1st sentence: why is it "unfortunate" that this is recycled topic? Given there are now 7 pages of contributions I can't see anything unfortunate about bringing up this topic, even if it has been done before.

Re 2nd sentence: read below

Re 3rd sentence: I have to disagree here Jim. You were directing question directly at me but I'm still unclear as to why. If you weren't then you needed to word things differently.

Re 4th sentence: this is why I started the thread. By saying this you are agreeing with my observation that the show is on a decline and that this trend can't continue if the show is to continue.


I started this thread out of genuine concern for the TWWWS and in the hope something could be gained from the ensuing conversation that could be taken back to the organisers. As I said I would be very disappointed to see it fall off the woodworkers calendar. The suggestion that I have been critical can only relate to one comment I made; "nothing seems to change much" but I could suggest (like all my other comments) this is simply an observation rather than a criticism. Whether this is right or wrong is irrelevant (and I apologise to Liz and crew if this is wrong) because if this is the perception of others as well as me then the chance people are going to want to come back year after year is going to be diminished. Yes the show does need more vendors and customers so isn't this a good forum to discuss how we as a concerned community can help the organisers get these vendors and customers.

Perhaps not. Instead of being viewed as concerned woodworking community we (or some of us) get called "faceless cowards". I'm amazed this comment has not drawn more flack particularly from the Forum Moderators. This is an incredibly rude and off-the-mark assertion and one that should not have been tolerated.

I have, for a long time, been of the belief that if I am not prepared to be part of the solution then I forfeit my right to criticise. My intention was to send the organisers a letter with some thoughts about the show based on what was discussed here. I was going to do this because of my OBSERVATIONS that I started this thread with. Yes they were observations and I have not read too much that has refuted them. Perhaps my mistake was that I didn't also offer some compliments to soften the negative report.

I don't agree with everything that has been said but isn't it a good thing we are having this discussion. I'm sure a lot of us feel some close connection with the TWWWS and would want to do anything we can to help it survive and flourish. Perhaps this discussion is going to go some way to galvanising us all into action and making sure we do our part in the future to support and promote it.

My apologies Brendan I may speak the queens english but it was never my best subject at school, so if you find my wording incorrect you can fix for me.

We get this after every show we do, and we do see a few over the year. There is always the same questions and 7 pages of remarks.

We need positive work done to move the show forward from both vendors and punters.

As one person indicated there was 20 names from last years show who were not their this year, has anyone approached them to find out why they did not attend.

After last years show which was a good one why did the punters not turn up this year, maybe you should be asking them as well.

Think about what your own local clubs do to generate new ideas and new promotions to get the local public to their shows and magnify this ten fold.

There has been only one show we have done this year that has gone forward and we praised them for this, but we also warned them not to rest on their laurels as the effort put in this year needs to be duplicated and the bar raised.

Where do you advertise to get the best result.

Get rid of all the negatives and work on the positives and push those forward. Help the organisers dont keep browbeating them with negatives.

Originally Posted by Jim Carroll

Get rid of all the negatives and work on the positives and push those forward. Help the organisers dont keep browbeating them with negatives.

Look, its all very well to say that we should concentrate on the positives and leave the negative comments out but think about it. If all we do is praise what they did well, nobody is going to tell them what they need to improve on.

It is the people who aren't happy but care enough about preserving the event that are the most critical. There will be people who attended this year who will not ever come back because they did not like it. They wont bother to log in and document why they did not like it. They just will not be bothered to come back.

Now the ones who complain that something was not to their liking - They want to come to the show. But they do not like how it is run or something else about it. There is a hell of a lot of them. Some will attend next year to see if their comments have been listened to and there is also a hell of a lot of them who will not come back because they know that they will not be listened to. Some of this category have reasonable opinions which maybe need to be addressed. Others are probably unreasonable and expecting too much. I think they are in the minority.

The organisers and moderators should drop the stance of only listening to the positives and also listen to the CONSTRUCTIVE if somewhat negative feedback provided by those who care enough to provide it.

Really, whats the point in listening all day to others who agree with you. These guys are really trying to help by putting forward a conflicting point of view and that in itself is a positive contribution even if it could be percieved as a negative.

Change and improvement comes from conflict, If two people agree 100% of the time really one of them is surplus to requirements. Beneficial change comes from a rational analysis of differing viewpoints. If someone disagrees with your point of view then basically they have two choices:

They say "Yes Dear" and leave it at that, and it means that the argument is not of any real importance to them anyway,

they say " Hang on I dont agree, I feel strongly about this and I want you to hear my opinion" and this means they care enough about it to take ownership of it and try to make it better. these are the people who need to be listened to because statistics say that for every one that puts his hand up, there are between 10 and 100 others who feel the same but do not want to get involved.

Listen to the complainers, because they care enough to voice their concerns

Doug