Yet another Black Dog thread

[jhovel]

Like other discussions on the topic here, this is both informative and helpful - and great education for those of us lucky enough NOT to get touched or 'adopted' by the black dog.
I've been fighting the bloddy animal for nearly 50 years, mostly successfully occasionally badly
And I worked as a mental health clinician for about 30 years.
For 5 of those years, I worked in the prison system. Here is why that's relevant:
I made a point for a lot of that time to ask people in jail who were users (and that was the cause for their offences) what started them using. The replies were informative: mostly they had never been asked the question, secondly the answers were generally blaming someone else for starting them. NOT ONE of them started for the fun of it! Once they realised I was interested more deeply then finding a reason to despise them, they ALL reported (often after a lot of therapeutic unravelling of their lives at the time of starting) that they were in pain at the time, either physical or emotional. Those with physical pain more often ended up using heroin (which makes sense, because it is a VERY strong pain killer - until you develop tolerance). Those with emotional pain stayed with dope or ice or 'recreational' drugs either for longer or never used heroin.
The point I want to make is that the two afflictions are indeed linked, but using drugs is more likely related to depression as the root cause: life is so bloody miserable, you might as well 'wipe yourself out' not to feel it or be able to do at least SOMETHING.... however unhelpful that may prove to be.
Incidentally, without a real body of evidence on the matter, I believe additive alcohol use may have the same root cause....

Occasionally it goes the other way in people who 'party' a couple of times too often or too close together (and get hooked), but I found NO evidence of that in the criminal segment of the polulation I dealt with. Sadly, in the general population with mental illness I came across quite a few who 'partied' at age 16 - 25 and triggered (not caused) a mental illness. Usually schizophrenia, occasionally bipolar illness (manic-depressive illess) and rarely depression. So it can go both ways even for depression, but the latter is MUCH less likely. By the time we are 25, the risk of triggereing mental illness by drug use is prettly low.
Getting what used to be called 'reactive depression' or a persistent sadness as a RESULT of known and recognizable life stresses is another issue altogether. It may of course occur as a result of recognition of the mess made by drug use in one's life.... still, asking "why are you depressed?" is pretty bloody unhelpful to say the least, so I'm all with Steven Fry on that one.... Fortunately, reversing that mess - or even making efforts to do so - is likely to resolve this kind of depression, especially with therapeutic help.

As to the number of members here who report depression, it is a trickle! Those of us who do obviously feel 'among friends' and safe from ridicule. In reality, it is more likely that 1/4 of the members are touched by it, so the numbers are even here SERIOUSLY under-reported. How many active members here? Divide that by 4 and you have a closer number....

Anyway, lets keep writing about it - it will help us and those who would like to know more.

[RedShirtGuy]

Some really great stuff in the last few posts...really, really great stuff...from entirely different perspectives too which is even more important.

in2deep: I truly think it's fantastic that you're voluntarily going out there to get more information to try and understand your bloke's problems. Keep supporting and encouraging him when he's both low and high. Show him equilibrium. Forgive *some* regressions...the journey doesn't always progress forwards and sometimes the steps backwards are just as important if seen as learning/realisation opportunities...but yes, don't let him mistake compassion and understanding for an excuse to carry on without helping himself (or getting help for himself).

[snip]

*ugh*...I started a massive rant about dollars and depression and social stigma and blah blah blah...but it just seemed like more "woe is me" (which is ABSOLUTELY fine to say - but I feel I've shared enough for the time being)...Suffice it to say...the dollar is worth nothing compared to love, compassion, co-operation and some sometimes difficult concessions.


Joe: Very well put from a history of someone in the midst of it. Your post (above) as a sufferer, but mostly as an investigator/supporter should be read by most everyone as I think it goes someway to explaining the depression/substance connection. Very well put.

[in2deep]

It's just over 18 months since I started this thread and things are no better (possibly worse) with our son.
I've just re read all the posts here and I feel a bit ashamed of the way I feel about our son. I am starting to think that while he may not like being depressed and would choose not to be depressed, he takes advantage of the situation. He is bone lazy, spends most of his time in his room, which is a pigsty. I've lost count of the the number of times I've had discussions with him about being part of the family and putting in around the house. He knows that as long as he can play the depression card his mother will let him get away with anything. I love my wife with all my heart and will do nothing to hurt her so I say nothing to cause trouble. I truly believe that my son needs to live somewhere else for a while with people that have no emotional attachment to him. I don't think we're helping him by letting him stay with us.
He is on medication, don't know what, don't know if he's taking it. I do know he is not getting any professional help (counseling). I do know that if he's not prepared to help himself and can't see the trouble he causes between my wife and I then I wish he would get the hell out of our house.

Not feeling too good about what I've just written, but it's what I'm feeling at the moment.

[rwbuild]

I hear what your saying but there are times when tough love needs to be shown both to your son and to your wife and self, if you don't you will all be in the same boat eventually.
Rest assured I am on your side but the need for leadership is now.

[artful bodger]

It's just over 18 months since I started this thread and things are no better (possibly worse) with our son.
I've just re read all the posts here and I feel a bit ashamed of the way I feel about our son. I am starting to think that while he may not like being depressed and would choose not to be depressed, he takes advantage of the situation. He is bone lazy, spends most of his time in his room, which is a pigsty. I've lost count of the the number of times I've had discussions with him about being part of the family and putting in around the house. He knows that as long as he can play the depression card his mother will let him get away with anything. I love my wife with all my heart and will do nothing to hurt her so I say nothing to cause trouble. I truly believe that my son needs to live somewhere else for a while with people that have no emotional attachment to him. I don't think we're helping him by letting him stay with us.
He is on medication, don't know what, don't know if he's taking it. I do know he is not getting any professional help (counseling). I do know that if he's not prepared to help himself and can't see the trouble he causes between my wife and I then I wish he would get the hell out of our house.

Not feeling too good about what I've just written, but it's what I'm feeling at the moment.

Hi mate.
Only just read this thread. By what you have just said I reckon you need to kick your son out of home to work things out for himself. Time for tough love.
There is an old saying that goes something like this " A wound over dressed, never heals"
In my extended family there is someone who has willed them self into a wheelchair even though I am convinced there is no reason for it. This particular person has been playing the sympathy card since childhood and it has worked a treat (albeit to the complete detriment of the family). I could write a book about it but do not have the time. To put it in a short anecdote the most similar thing I have seen is when I was feeding left over chips to some seagulls one day. The hungry birds were fighting over the chips as I dispensed them however there was this one bird that was limping around in the edges of the action. I felt sorry for it and threw a chip or two its way. This is when the transformation happened, it darted at the closely thrown chips with no hint of a limp each time I threw one in it's direction. In other words it had learned to play the sympathy card. Obviously that bird had been injured at some stage in life and had learned the benefits of being so. To keep it up when there is nothing wrong is fraud.