Thread: Cymbalta and Depression

Originally Posted by tea lady

But others will sometimes. I will get narky at something and they will say, "Did you take your pill?" Which makes me mad too, but then I think well no I forgot.

Anne-Maria, I guess they don't always say it like that (but no doubt that's what you hear), BUT I think that there are much more diplomatic ways for people to enquire about that. For example "the last time I saw you react like that, it turned out you'd missed something" seems to me to be a softer way of saying the same thing.

Trying to educate non-sufferers (I hate the term "sufferer") is a big part of the battle. The "snap out of it" brigade actually have a lot to learn, and lot to answer for, as they often only make things worse with their lack of empathy and understanding.

Cheers
Brett

FWIW I don't see it as a 'mind isssue' but as a kind of crisis in living that demands a change in direction.

If you ignore that demand you will start to feel ill.

But seeing a way forward and finding the resources to put it into effect are not at all easy.

Competent counselling (not all that easy to find) is the first step, and was for me. Research suggests that it also works for others who suffer from mild to medium depression.

Given this reading, meds just deal with the symptoms, not the causes.

I've just noticed that over the last month or so I've been symptom free and a great deal happier off them than I was on. Go figure.

Job change perhaps ?

Scott, there is growing discussion amongst the pros as to whether ADs of any kind are little more than a placebo effect (and this is backed by clinical analysis - I hesitate to use the word "experiment" which is what it actually is). So I don't have to go figure, as it makes good sense to me.

Cheers
Brett

Originally Posted by Pac man

Job change perhaps ?

Maybe, although I haven't started yet. There is probably a sense of relief that comes with knowing your going to start something fresh.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Scott, there is growing discussion amongst the pros as to whether ADs of any kind are little more than a placebo effect (and this is backed by clinical analysis - I hesitate to use the word "experiment" which is what it actually is). So I don't have to go figure, as it makes good sense to me.

I think you're right Brett. I can honestly say I never felt all that different on them. All I know is that I feel better off them.

Originally Posted by Scott

I think you're right Brett. I can honestly say I never felt all that different on them. All I know is that I feel better off them.

So maybe your particular placebo effect is in reverse......which would be similar to my experience.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Scott, there is growing discussion amongst the pros as to whether ADs of any kind are little more than a placebo effect (and this is backed by clinical analysis - I hesitate to use the word "experiment" which is what it actually is). So I don't have to go figure, as it makes good sense to me.

Cheers
Brett

Hi
There is no doubt that antidepressants are more effective than placebo in treating depression. There are many trials showing this. For a review, see below. If anyone wants to read it, PM me and I'll email it. The Cochrane database is regarded as the most rigorous summary of evidence in the medical literature. This doesn't mean that antidepressants work in every case. No treatment does. It means significantly more people benefit than do not.

Stewart

Antidepressants versus placebo for depression in primary care. Arroll B. Elley CR. Fishman T. Goodyear-Smith FA. Kenealy T. Blashki G. Kerse N. Macgillivray S.
Cochrane Database of systematic reviews(3)D007954, 2009.

Good news Scott.

Ok. Firstly let me say this is a great thread and extremely meaningful for us battling the black dog. As I read this I feel the tears well, the lump in the throat and the heart begin to race.

I am now in the sixth year of depression and according to the experts, the second year of being treated "correctly" for Bipolar depression. I am not yet convinced suffice to say I have some sort of mood disorder. I have lost my job and have not been able to work in any meaningful way for the last six years. I have two young children, (7 and 5) and still married. I often question why my wife sticks around. Many wouldn't and I don't blame them. I feel I have become a ####ty husband and worse father and losing the battle to improve. My anger takes on demon proportions at times and it has placed me in dangerous situations along the journey. I battle daily with the fact that I have lost a career that I have spent 20+ years building up and at the time of initial diagnosis was up near the top of the tree in a large consulting firm. I was also very fit, enjoying exercise and challenging myself very much. I was proud and maybe a little arrogant (a positive affect of my illness is that I am definitely no longer arrogant!). I sit here today thinking "What next? How could this have happened? Why? I have lost so much. There is no way back to those heights. The rest, I am afraid, feels like a compromise."

Over the last six years I have experienced deep depression where something as simple as brushing my teeth required a plan with steps such as getting up off the couch and walking to the bathroom being celebrated. I have had pockets of improvement where I felt well enough to attempt to return to work. They didn't last any longer than three months before I came crashing down again. My family and friends are on a "need to know" basis. Basically, my wife and I have kept this to ourselves and lying to maintain the secret is now a matter of course rather than an occasional thing. In fact, I would say that most attempts to tell people have led us to believe it was a mistake given the response or longer term reaction we got. Anyway, I think you get the picture.

As far as my treatment goes I have basically been seeing psychologists and/or psychiatrists on a weekly basis for the best part of the six years. I have been prescribed a gamut of drugs, snri's, ssri's, mood stabilisers, relaxants, sleep initiators, anti-convulsants, anti-psychotics......I have also had ECT treatment over two seperate periods that only worked temporarily. In fact, given my experience, I will never do that again but I do understand it works for some. My experience with the drugs is that they are awful but essential. The side-effects ie. nausea, head zaps, sleeplessness, sleepfulness, tremors, weight gain etc., are challenging in themselves (including ending up in hospital due to a suspected stroke caused by Seroquel) but I am confident that without them, in my darkest moments, I wouldn't be here today. I convinced myself and at times still believe that I no longer fear death. My wife and children are what keeps me going and therein lies an issue for me. I need to get to the point where I place myself in the number one position for care and am working hard on that.

I agree that psychology and medication go hand in hand. At the worst times the drugs provided a safety net for me. During the better times they enabled me to be open to psychotherapy and related treatment. I have dug deep into the past addressing experiences from as young as six years old (I am now forty-two) that I now understand have had a profound impact. One thing I know is that I have a genetic disposition for depression. There are too many other members of my family in the same boat for it to be a coincidence but I also know my illness is deeply rooted in psychology and to date, this is where I have made the biggest improvements and I hold the most hope in. Besides seeing professionals I have also studied mindfulness, meditation and relaxation techniques. I have been quite inconsistent in their application but can attest to their effectiveness and have a goal of making them a part of my daily life. Exercise is also key but only until recently have I been able to experience its benefits again in any meaningful way.

This in some way, brings me to today. Last June I was in the middle of another course of ECT. I had had two treatments in what was looking like a course of six to eight. I didn't have a treatment on the Monday as it was the Queen's B'Day holiday and that gave me, what seemed like too much, time to think. I ended up packing my bags and walking out of the hospital vowing to never let anyone do that to me again. This was significant. It was the first time in five or so years that I took some control. My psychiatrist, whilst admitting being a little concerned, used this as a positive. Since then we have made some major breakthroughs in the psychology. This is how I can honestly say that for me, the way to health is to be found in the psychology. I feel I am moving away from absolutely needing the drugs and in fact, with his oversight am on a path to medication reduction and hopefully, free from medication at some point. I feel like I am at the very start of the journey as far as the psychology goes but for the first time I feel I am on the right path. Since Oct last year I have been exercising and that feels great. Hopefully that will lead to getting off the blood pressure and cholesterol meds that have also made it into my daily diet!!

So where to now? I don't really know and tread carefully, rightfully or wrongfully on the lookout for the next fall. One thing I do understand is that I have an illness, it has reset my life course and it must be managed as I don't think I can ever say it can be "cured" however, I am experiencing the most promising time in this journey and hopefully with further work 2013 will be a happier chapter in the diary.

Thanks for listening and sharing everyone. I feel I can just keep writing and writing and reading. All your stories remind me also that I am not alone and I feel your support.

Originally Posted by metester

Thanks for listening and sharing everyone. I feel I can just keep writing and writing and reading. All your stories remind me also that I am not alone and I feel your support.

Glad to have read your story for I believe that sharing with friends is the best way to start on the road to recovery. My own health problems have been physical and even then I found that sharing was very helpful.

Remember that learning to cope with this is a bit like a child learning to walk. They take a few steps and fall but instead of giving up they try again and again and again until they can do it right. Same with you, you will have setbacks but don't give up, the next day try again and again.

Thanks for sharing and good luck .

Peter.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Glad to have read your story for I believe that sharing with friends is the best way to start on the road to recovery. My own health problems have been physical and even then I found that sharing was very helpful.

Remember that learning to cope with this is a bit like a child learning to walk. They take a few steps and fall but instead of giving up they try again and again and again until they can do it right. Same with you, you will have setbacks but don't give up, the next day try again and again.

Thanks for sharing and good luck .

Peter.

Thanks Sturdee. Good advice. As always some of the best advice is the simplest!

Good luck metester. That's a powerful story you've shared with us.

Originally Posted by rsser

Good luck metester. That's a powerful story you've shared with us.

Indeed Ern. I haven't really known what to say in reply. Depression is one thing, and can be pretty dangerous, but when you add the other end to it to get BP, it's quite another altogether. Coping with both ends, and the middle "normal" bit, can be very difficult.

I'm "soft" BP2, which in time will be recognised as BP3 I suppose. The depression is always obvious (to myself, and others) but the hypomania was not apparent to anyone until 5 years ago, at age 51. And this is despite being under psychs since I was 30.

However, during the final months before we got to diagnosis, I spent a great deal of time reflecting on my life's events, and I can now trace HM behaviour back to the age of 10, and many more occurences after that. The poor decisions and choices that I've made can be almost all ascribed to HM, I believe. It's pretty complex, but it all makes so much sense to me now, in retrospect.

That's not to say that HM is all bad. There are many very successful things that have come out of it for me - when I'm on a (worthwhile) project by God I can concentrate on it, and see it through to what is often a great result. I just wish I had known about it much, much earlier as I believe that I would have been so much better equipped to deal with life as it's been for me. You see, now I can see the HM coming to some extent, and so that allows me to keep it under control, and basically use it like a tool to get results. I no longer take Lithium (and haven't for 2 years) because I think (hope) that I have enough awareness to manage it within myself.

Metester, I can't really offer you advice because all of our situations are so different. All I can say is that I believe very strongly that you/we can control it to (at least some) extent from within.

Brett