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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    In the US prescription drugs or illicit opioids make up about 70% of drug related deaths, and it's about the same % in Australia.
    But in per capita terms the US has about 5x more deaths from prescription drugs or illicit opioids.
    For alcohol the per capita rates are about the same.
    My understanding is that a lot of the prescription drug deaths here (or deaths on cheaper street versions after a script addiction) are related to combining drugs, or using drugs and then mixing with alcohol (respiratory failure and subsequent death).

    I could never understand why people abuse drugs like ritalin, but asked my PCP why that was a controlled substance, and he said "because people who take sedating drugs try to mix amphetamines in so that they can stay awake longer and take more sedatives".

    !!!!!

    Interesting to see which causes are "affluenza" on that list (common only in wealthy societies). Deaths due to excessive consumption of red meat !!

    On the other end, indoor air pollution deaths - have to assume that's due to the habit in some poor countries to cook food over open flame indoors, or over a cooking surface that doesn't draft out properly and smokes the interior environment (along with all of the volatile gases and CO that normally goes up the chimney).

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.W. View Post
    On the other end, indoor air pollution deaths - have to assume that's due to the habit in some poor countries to cook food over open flame indoors, or over a cooking surface that doesn't draft out properly and smokes the interior environment (along with all of the volatile gases and CO that normally goes up the chimney).
    Constantly running up to 3 dust detectors inside my house it appears that irrespective of the heating process used, using heat to cook makes LOTS of fine particles. We have an electric oven and an induction cooktop and every time SWMBO fires up the stove or oven the fine particle detectors four rooms aways lights up. When a detectors is located in the kitchen they show levels well above what I would expect.

    The worst processes are roasting/frying especially meats but when any heated oils are involved although baking of any kind shows up as high. The weekly pork belly cook is usually the worst. What this shows is that range hood extraction fans are pretty hopeless and new standards need to be studied and investigated.

  4. #18
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    even the oily steam goes everywhere. When we moved into our house, it took me a while to identify the unknown substance on the cabinets and on the top of the hood as settled steam droplets. Whatever products meat oxidation went up in the steam would've ended up in the air and those droplets.

    Now, imagine if you were forced to cook in a two room hut in an impoverished area and had to use a brick stove with an open face or partially open face spilling smoke and particles into the air all around you. Not good!!

    We heated with wood when I was a kid. You could vaguely smell it when you got used to it - anyone who heats with wood with less than absolutely perfect draft will recognize that faint smell. Each summer, my mother would wash all of the walls and make us help. "spring cleaning".

    In the 90s, oil got cheap (i was still in high school) and we ditched the stove and went to oil (which is filthy, but the filth wasn't on the main floor at least, and the forced draft was much better at sending the filth out the chimney) - never washed the walls again and upon checking, they were never really very dirty.

    We were breathing all of that stuff in - and it was a product of combustion, so I'm sure it wasn't that healthy. That said, my grandparents lived in a wood heated house into their mid 80s, so it's not *that* toxic, either. I wonder how many of the indoor pollution deaths are accumulative, and how many are due to events like accidental CO poisoning.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.W. View Post
    c We were breathing all of that stuff in - and it was a product of combustion, so I'm sure it wasn't that healthy. That said, my grandparents lived in a wood heated house into their mid 80s, so it's not *that* toxic, either. I wonder how many of the indoor pollution deaths are accumulative, and how many are due to events like accidental CO poisoning.
    A sample of 4 grandparents is not a very good representative of the whole population. 3 of my grandparents died before they were 60 and one lived to be 92. 100 years ago poor sanitation was one of the leading causes of death, now its #17 just below Safe sex.

    To complicate matters, our grandparents generation overall dust exposure was offset by fewer motor vehicles, planes, fewer synthetic chemicals, and far less industrialization,etc. Lots of people died from unexplained strokes and heart attacks back then - now we know that some of these are cause by excess dust and the older a person is the more susceptible they are to dust.

  6. #20
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    My 4 were farmers, so their dust inhalation was high (but not compared to a miner or stone cutter). My point is that they had exhaust components of coal and wood in their house as their main heating source, and as my parents' house, it triggered cleaning of walls (which is probably pretty minimal these days).

    None of them had any respiratory issues. Ages of death 79,84,88,94 across the board. Their ingestion of things we'd consider dangerous was much higher than ours, but they were also on their feet a lot and "a little tubby" by today's standards ("really big" by the standard of their day except for 1).

    My point about the combustion products is that we breathed some, but compared to someone cooking over a partially open fire indoors, almost nothing. Thus the super high results in sub saharan africa where the cooking is done indoors and smoke isn't just the byproduct of an improperly set damper, it was part of the design of the cooking area.

    I saw a youtube video of a small stove that had a tiny fraction of the smoke of an open fire and one of its boasts was saleability to poorer countries where it would be used inside. I wrote it off at the time as being an appeal to get investors, but now that I see those numbers, maybe they were on to something (they were also selling a $150 stove that probably few in sub saharan africa could've afforded).

    My grandparents also live in an era of little safety control (as farmers). My father was run over by a wagon, so was his brother - both lucky in soft dirt (dad filled his pants, his brother had his ear partially separated from his head). One of their other brothers wasn't as lucky, catching a pitchfork below the eye after it shifted from above at the edge of a hay hole (if that's an american term, it's just a hole in the floor where hay from above would be pushed into so that it could get down to the animals without being carried. when the loose hay accumulated, you forked it through the hole to be fed. Unfortunately, someone left a fork near the hole and it left my dad's brother permanently damaged - half of his body is underdeveloped due to the brain damage - he's lucky he didn't die, but one wouldn't say lucky in general).

    Strangely enough, we never thought about inhalation of a small amount of smoke as being unhealthful, but my grandmother often blamed her wrinkled skin on the dry heat of wood and was envious of other women (in reality, it was probably genetic luck - she thought the stove burned the moisture out of the air and made her skin wrinkle, though).

    We have gas here - forced air, and I leave my basement windows cracked for circulation - it's extreme relative luxury, but I miss the hot spot in the winter. In modern times, I guess we avoid the need for it by not going outside.

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