Thread: Got the jab today.

I had my second jab a week or so ago, same as the first, no side effects. I never have side effects from vaccinations, not even a sore arm. Had jabs for covid, pneumonia, shingles flu and a swag of vaccinations when I was living overseas, no reactions at all.

Had my second A-Z yesterday, no side effects so far. Appointment was made at the time of my first shot and phone reminder for second shot received on Monday.
Cheers,
Geoff.

Originally Posted by Fuzzie

Tried to book my second AZ shot due in a couple of weeks. Was told there isn't enough supply at the moment on the Gold Coast to be able to make a booking. Suggested we ring back in 3 weeks and try again!

What happened to all the rhetoric about guaranteeing supply for all second shots?

It's interesting that you had to call to make an appointment. The normal practice is that they book your 2nd shot appointment when they give you the first shot. Perhaps the lack of an advance booking meant that they didn't reserve a second dose for you? I wonder why they didn't automatically make that 2nd appointment?

Originally Posted by Warb

It's interesting that you had to call to make an appointment. The normal practice is that they book your 2nd shot appointment when they give you the first shot. Perhaps the lack of an advance booking meant that they didn't reserve a second dose for you? I wonder why they didn't automatically make that 2nd appointment?

I went to a QLD Gov centre that was initially only setup up as a temporary venue for rolling out vaccinations for priority group 1a health workers. It was later opened for community walk ins when the 1a group weren't bothering to get vaccinated and presumable good vaccine was being thrown away unused for lack of clients. The centre eventually started advertising as a generally available vaccination venue with a road side information board.

When I got my first dose it was expected the GCCC hall being used would cease to be available sometime in July (it has been empty for 12 months prior and is earmarked for major structural renovation) so no appointment could be set for the second jab and I was given a phone # to book in closer to when the second was due.

My regular GP is a Travel doc and they have the facility to do lots of vaccinations, but they couldn't even get enough vaccine supply to timely inoculate their regulars over the age of 80. My GP told me he couldn't see enough vaccine being available to their clinic for me before September.

The whole vaccine supply thing has been a major stuff up all round so far, and with the PM making ad hoc recommendation changes on the fly without any apparent medical support or consensus from the states, well......

Originally Posted by Fuzzie

The whole vaccine supply thing has been a major stuff up all round so far, and with the PM making ad hoc recommendation changes on the fly without any apparent medical support or consensus from the states, well......

It's a very interesting subject all round. Australia has a government system designed in the days when horses took messages over long distances and communication between states took weeks. We now have instant communications, but an antique multi-layered government with overlapping responsibilities, duplicate spending and rules that vary between different sides of a state "border". Health is largely state run, with mostly federal funding and _some_ federal policy decisions. That is a mess, especially when the political parties, and media, will use any excuse to blame an perceived error on someone else.

Now in to this mess we have thrown a health issue that the world hasn't seen before, or at best hasn't seen since the Spanish flu 100 years ago. Australia is in no position to deal with this, we have very little research or manufacturing capability (this is not the governments fault, we are a tiny country population-wise, and medical research is massively expensive), so we have to use advice and treatment from overseas. Initially nobody worldwide knows what they are doing, but we start to learn. Inevitably advice and recommendations change, that's the nature of development when done on the fly. Sadly, it is also inevitable that in an environment with multiple people wanting to take responsibility for success, but also to pass the buck on any failures, and multiple "experts" employed by (their mates in) various different governments and also the media, any change in recommendation can be held up as a "failure".

The changes in recommendations are mostly based on changing/developing knowledge, and there will always be "experts" who have opposing views. The latest change on AZ for younger people is interesting. Yes, there is a risk for younger people using AZ, but it is still a relatively low risk. The difficulty is that the vaccine uptake in Australia has been very poor, both because of the bad press about AZ and also the low death rate (this is also why many people here still think it's a hoax). The Pfizer vaccine is in low supply, because Pfizer is a US company and has sold most of its product to its domestic market. Sooner or later the world (which is now, or will quickly be, largely immunised either through vaccine or direct exposure to the disease) will start to open up. At that point Australia must be in a position to open up, or stay shut. Vaccine or disease, now or later. The PM knows this, but can't get the Pfizer vaccine in sufficient quantity. Rock and hard place!! The state governments can blame everything, no matter if real, imaginary or self inflicted, on the feds, whether that everything is "the wrong vaccine", or "not enough vaccine" or "hell, we're all dying". Australia has developed the ideal system to provide a scapegoat for all seasons!

In your case, what you have experienced seems to be mostly local (state or regional) organised - the distribution of vaccine to GP's is, I believe, done at state level. Now it may be that the state does indeed have a lack of vaccine, but it may also be that it is sitting in a warehouse, or has been sent somewhere that it's not needed, or is held up "in process". Also, in the case of GP's, it is entirely possible that the GP neglected to order the right amount, then placed a massive order too late and blames this error on "the government".

My wife and I worked in "big pharma" for many years, both in Australia and around the world. We (technically "she") own the local pharmacy and daily experience the failings of doctors, hospitals, aged care centres and so forth to correctly fill out paperwork and supply orders/scripts/reports on a timely basis (and sometimes they never arrive, even after multiple reminders). The local pharmacy does not officially supply anything directly to the medical centre, so every time they come and get something it's because they have neglected to order it before they run out......

A very good summary Warbs.

I would add that there may be a slightly different scenario in country areas to urban populations. In our case in a very small town of 1440 plus surrounding rural area (4000 all up) there was no facility provided for vaccination despite having a hospital and a medical clinic.

We had to rely in a contractor, who arrived for two days, like a travelling circus and managed 80 vaccinations in two days before moving on. yesterday I had confirmed that I will be contacted when the second shot is due and available. This will be at the end of the third month, although I have now seen reports that this waiting period is actually between 0ne and three months: A little bit more muddling of the waters.

My fundamental disbelief is that it was necessary to use private contractors to roll out the vaccine. The justification appeared to be special training was required. It seems ludicrous to imagine that groups of medical professionals, who administer vaccinations in a multitude of spheres could not learn any special requirements in the blink of an eye.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but it does look horribly like feeding the gravy train to me.

Regards
Paul

I totally agree with Warbs also.

Just to relate my experience... In April I headed out to the hamlet of Boomi in northwest NSW to help my wife's cousin plant his winter crops. He is in his late 60's. In early May he was contacted by his local GP (who is in the Qld town of Goondiwindi - the closest large town to Boomi) to arrange the AZ vaccine if he wanted it. Apparently this medical practice was contacting all their patients who were eligible rather than waiting for the patients to contact them. Great idea. Anyway he got the shot straight away with no side effects.

I returned home to the coast (Nelson Bay area) in early June and that same day (about midday) rang my local GP to arrange my AZ vaccine. Got my shot the same afternoon with no side effects, and was booked in for my second at the same time. My GP commented at the time (and I am paraphrasing our conversation) the AZ vaccine procedure was just basic medical practise and no different to adapting to any new or changed medical procedure.

Now I realise the big city is different to regional areas but there appears to be a discrepancy as to what is reported in the media and what I have experienced in regard to AZ vaccine availability. Perhaps the media need to have a bit of a look in the mirror.

Anyway that is my 2c worth

Regards
Twosheds

I think it's worth. Remembering that the govt has never faced this sort of thing before, expecting the govt to roll out this mass vaccination project without some problems is asking a bit much!

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

My fundamental disbelief is that it was necessary to use private contractors to roll out the vaccine. The justification appeared to be special training was required. It seems ludicrous to imagine that groups of medical professionals, who administer vaccinations in a multitude of spheres could not learn any special requirements in the blink of an eye.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but it does look horribly like feeding the gravy train to me.

We are also in a rural area, and my wife (the local pharmacist, as I said) has done the training to administer the vaccine. She was already trained to do 'flu shots etc., and the additional training was a short on-line course. We had to buy an extra drug fridge, which is expensive but not the end of the world, but everything is now in place and we're ready for the first batch of vaccine whenever the relevant authorities decide to hit the "go" button.

HOWEVER.... Our local GP has decided not to bother doing covid vaccinations because in his mind it's simply too much effort for the reward, and I guess he's busy enough doing everything else. Our local mini-hospital aren't doing them either, but there is a vaccination centre set up in the next town (35km) and it's easy enough to make an appointment.

The important point is that the GP has DECIDED not to do them, rather than not being allowed..!

Originally Posted by sacc51

I think it's worth. Remembering that the govt has never faced this sort of thing before, expecting the govt to roll out this mass vaccination project without some problems is asking a bit much!

The Govt used to have a pandemic planning task force that was disbanded some years ago. There should have been some knowledge still available from that hanging around. Recently they have put a serving Defence Force person (Lieutenant General John “JJ” Frewen) in charge of the vaccination rollout for the whole community, a position that has changed hands several times over the last 12 months. Apparently there was not enough competence in the Public Service to manage the rollout, it needs to be militarized.

Originally Posted by Fuzzie

The Govt used to have a pandemic planning task force that was disbanded some years ago. There should have been some knowledge still available from that hanging around. Recently they have put a serving Defence Force person (Lieutenant General John “JJ” Frewen) in charge of the vaccination rollout for the whole community, a position that has changed hands several times over the last 12 months. Apparently there was not enough competence in the Public Service to manage the rollout, it needs to be militarized.

It has been my experience worldwide that governments and the public service tend to employ/position people based on friendship and political persuasion at higher levels, and cost at lower levels (salaries are usually lower than those in the private sector). The result is that "recommendations" from advisors and high level public servants can often be motivated by profit or political expedience, and the "real work" is then undertaken by people of limited experience/training/competence. I have had no direct involvement with the Australian public sector, so I cannot comment on whether this is true here, but the result of this (in countries afflicted by such systems) is that government departments happily wander along, right up to the point that they are needed, at which time they fail to deal with the very situation that they were created to plan for.

It is also wise to remember that sometimes it is seen as a good strategy to de-politicise a position, especially one as "exposed" as the management of a heavily criticised vaccine rollout in the middle of a pandemic. The media can't instantly attack him, and if he does a good job then the government can claim responsibility. If not, then there is a non-political goat to scrape..

Originally Posted by Warb

It is also wise to remember that sometimes it is seen as a good strategy to de-politicise a position, especially one as "exposed" as the management of a heavily criticised vaccine rollout in the middle of a pandemic. The media can't instantly attack him, and if he does a good job then the government can claim responsibility. If not, then there is a non-political goat to scrape..

I think that is exactly what has been done and continues to be done here in Oz. When the numbers were good there are governmental claims of how well we are handling the pandemic. When there is controversy or any adverse issues the blame is immediately shifted to the states via criticism.

I once heard that the way to avoid an ulcer is to hone the ability to delegate blame.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I think that is exactly what has been done and continues to be done here in Oz. When the numbers were good there are governmental claims of how well we are handling the pandemic. When there is controversy or any adverse issues the blame is immediately shifted to the states via criticism.

And vice versa!

The thing that irks me is the press and the daily State press conferences go on and on about the possible side effects of the Astra Zeneca (at 1 in 100,000) but absolutely fail to report (until one paper yesterday) the side effects of Pfizer. These include anaphylaxis but more important myocarditis and pericarditis, all at 1 in 100,000 - same as the AZ vaccine.