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  1. #76
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    Jun 2003
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    Sunbury, Vic
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    I am not sure if things have changed as my mother died just on 11 years ago. Here in Victoria, you could get an ACAT assessment done if it was likely that the person would need to go into care at some time in the future, even if it was just for the occasional respite time.
    If you get an ACAT assessment done, make sure that you or another family member is present so that the assessor gets the full story as the person involved will say everything is OK when in fact it may not be.
    The ACAT assessment used to expire and when my mother's first assessment expired, she threw away the reminder and I had to follow up and request it again.
    My mother still had all her marbles but I still sat in on the assessment as Mum insisted that she was managing everything when, in fact, she was having difficulty with some tasks.

    Hope that helps
    Tom

    "It's good enough" is low aim

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  3. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesand View Post
    I am not sure if things have changed as my mother died just on 11 years ago. Here in Victoria, you could get an ACAT assessment done if it was likely that the person would need to go into care at some time in the future, even if it was just for the occasional respite time.
    If you get an ACAT assessment done, make sure that you or another family member is present so that the assessor gets the full story as the person involved will say everything is OK when in fact it may not be.
    The ACAT assessment used to expire and when my mother's first assessment expired, she threw away the reminder and I had to follow up and request it again.
    My mother still had all her marbles but I still sat in on the assessment as Mum insisted that she was managing everything when, in fact, she was having difficulty with some tasks.
    Some good points there. My mum is still physically very fit and strong and was able to mask a lot of the issues especially in relation to the dementia to the point where her GP thought she was a just an ethic old lady who had migrant language problems and why didn't we just suck up the problems. We then organised for mum to see a gerontologist who asked all the right questions not just to mum but to my sisters as well and the gerontologist was quickly able to work out where mum was at. One interesting diagnosis tool is apparently to get the person to draw an analog clock showing a specific time. Someone with dementia will show the hands and the numbers in odd positions, some will show the numbers all on one side or in one quarter of the clock face etc. BTW I don't recommend you drawing any conclusions from this as its best left to a professional to perform any diagnosis.

  4. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    Riverhills, Brisbane
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    64
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    I have noticed that my Mum can not add up the value of coins anymore. If she goes to the bakery and is told the items cost $3.80, she grabs a handful of coins and puts them on the counter for someone else to count. Most times she may only put a little more than a dollar and when told that she needs maybe another $2.40, she just looks blankly into space and doesn't understand what is being asked.

    It's a strange thing to watch...one moment all is OK then in an instant there is this vacant look on her face and I have to dig into her purse or my pocket to get the rest or she just grabs another hand full. My sister has noticed the same thing and she says it's unnerving.

  5. #79
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by skot View Post
    I have noticed that my Mum can not add up the value of coins anymore. If she goes to the bakery and is told the items cost $3.80, she grabs a handful of coins and puts them on the counter for someone else to count. Most times she may only put a little more than a dollar and when told that she needs maybe another $2.40, she just looks blankly into space and doesn't understand what is being asked. It's a strange thing to watch...one moment all is OK then in an instant there is this vacant look on her face and I have to dig into her purse or my pocket to get the rest or she just grabs another hand full. My sister has noticed the same thing and she says it's unnerving.
    Yep - that's a classic one and is often one of the first things to go. Have you got an EPA for your mum? It sounds like you will need one to handle her financial affairs. Mum used to live within 200m of a large shopping centre and used to do her own shopping using one of those grannie trolleys. No matter how much her groceries cost mum started handing over a $20 or a $50 and ask if that was enough As soon as we spotted this my sisters started going with her to do the shopping and then mum just handed my sister her purse and asked her to pay. These days mum never buys anything but is happy if she has a couple of notes and some coins in her purse.

  6. #80
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    Jul 2003
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    Riverhills, Brisbane
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    BobL,
    Yes my sister & I are EPAs and I took the step about 6 months ago with her consent to gain 3rd party access to her Bank Account so I make sure all the bills are paid on time which I can do by Internet banking. When she stuffed up a payment by phone with all the required numbers to press she knew it was time to hand over that part of her life. She still has normal access to get cash out if she wants but I facilitate the bill payments.

    No matter how much her groceries cost mum started handing over a $20 or a $50 and ask if that was enough
    I noticed it early when she would always only hand over notes each time even for small amounts.

  7. #81
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    Riverhills, Brisbane
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    This is a question to any people on this thread who have had to place their loved one in an aged care facility.

    I know that most of the time it comes down to affordability but were you able to find a facility that provides reasonable care and did your relative have to live a fair distance away from members of family to get that care at a cost that was sustainable.

  8. #82
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Blue Mountains
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    Skot, have a look at myagedcare.gov.au for some information. Be prepared for a long process with multiple steps. Cost depends on what assets and income your mum has. All residents pay a basic daily fee (capped by Govt at a % of single pension). Some pay an accommodation fee (lump sum or daily payment, or mix of the two), depending on assets. Some also pay an additional fee called a Means Tested Care Fee. This is where the resident has capacity to pay for their ongoing care so the Govt deducts this from the home's government funding and requires the individual to pay it.

    Best thing to do is to arrange to visit some places and talk with people you know in the area. Many homes won't offer tours unless you've got the Govt assessment done first.

    I work in the industry. PM me if you'd like to have a private chat.

    regards,

    ajw

  9. #83
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    All 6 of the places we visited looked like they provided what we considered reasonable care and it did not necessarily appear related to cost.

    We recently put my MIL into care and because of urgency and because she could afford it she has ended up in a fairly swanky place quite close to us. Its a brand new Stainless Steel and Glass like facility with hot and cold running everything.
    BUT
    I reckon the architecture has a major deficiency in that most of the residents rooms are at the ends of a "maze like" internal room layouts and many rooms are physically separated by other facilities, ie a reading nook, a balcony, store rooms etc. The effect of this layout is to make rooms quieter but they are also not likely to be passed very often or at all by staff for that all important incidental, "How are you Mrs x?" There are plenty of staff in the common areas but you never seems to see any near MILs room as they have no need to walk by that way.

    The layout is so confusing I find it difficult to navigate my way though it and I keep wondering how residents with limited memories cope. In short MIL cannot despite a number of guided tours of the place by family and staff and so she does not leave her room of her own accord and does not eat in the dining area or participate in any activities. She basically just lives between her bed - armchair - bathroom, except when a family member takes her out for a coffee.

    The facility my mum is in is set up like a regular house with 8 bedrooms running off 2 central corridors. While this does make things busier there always seems to be someone around and it just feels "homier".

    BTW my mum has finally started going to the exercises classes and says she goes once or twice a week but according to the Physio Mum goes every morning. When we ask Mum about the classes she dismisses them as nonsense, but several times I have snuck into the back of the exercise room and seen her enjoying them. She is getting more confused which is distressing to all of us but that's just how it is.

  10. #84
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    May 2007
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    Gold Coast
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    70
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    My mother went through a succession of homes from low care to high care, most moves were because she was very independent and uncooperative and the facilities just decided she was too much trouble for them. Interestingly she actually seemed most comfortable in a multi bed nursing home at the end. I don't think it was just because of the higher carer ratio in the nursing home, it was less stressful for her in a ward scenario, she never identified with any of the private room environments and always felt like a prisoner even though they were modern and pleasantly decorated, if not a prison it was like living in somebody else's home and she never relaxed.

    One innovation I heard about was taking photos of the patients original home front doors, blowing them up to full size and sticking on the outside of the patient rooms. Reduced the problem of patients finding their way to their home room immensely.
    Franklin

  11. #85
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    Jul 2003
    Location
    Riverhills, Brisbane
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    64
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    Thanks for the replies. I went up to a facility only a couple of suburbs away and spoke to one of the Admissions staff to clear up some info together with the myagedcare website. I think I have a better grasp on the costs. Due to the value of Mum's present home and money in the bank we may be approx $90000 short for a full RAD payment for the accommodation that would be preferable but there are different mechanisms for this to work. I looked into another home that her assets would cover the full RAD payment...... BUT that would be a twin room with shared ensuite and further away from the family.

    It's a bit of a juggling act.

    We would prefer that she have her own room and private ensuite so we would like to get her into the local one which is quite nice so we either pay the DAP for the $90,000 difference or have the DAP deducted from the RAD lump sum. It's more about what is best for Mum, not what is left of the RAD at the end.

  12. #86
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    Feb 2003
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    68
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    Quote Originally Posted by skot View Post
    We would prefer that she have her own room and private ensuite so we would like to get her into the local one which is quite nice
    all I can say is having read the comments above, a shared room may offer your mum a lot more stimulation than a private -- read lonely -- room.



    I've just spent 4 nights in hospital in a private room. Geez it was lonely -- I purposely kept the door open just so I could nod hello to people passing bye in the corridor.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  13. #87
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Blue Mountains
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    Skot, the RAD is supposed to be negotiable. Most providers don't give you that impression, but you can offer a lower RAD. What drives their decision is the level of vacant rooms they have, and the daily care funding they're likely to receive from the Govt, known as ACFI funding. Daily ACFI can be between zero and about $215 per day, and is determined on the ongoing care needed by the resident.

    Generally, most homes have a target daily ACFI they're looking for, to cover their typical staffing levels.

    My understanding is that homes in Brisbane are having some occupancy problems because a lot of new homes have opened up. Homes with good solid reputations might not have occupancy issues, but it does happen.

    Another factor to consider is your capacity to pay the RAD upfront. The rules state that you don't need to decide how you'll pay (RAD or daily payment) until about a month after you've moved in. Some homes are keen to get the RAD rather than the DAP because it helps their capital position. This could be advantageous to you.

    Good luck.

    ajw

  14. #88
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    Jul 2003
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    Riverhills, Brisbane
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    I do understand that the RAD can be any amount that we want on a sliding scale. From what i have read, the facility can not determine the amount of RAD that we pay.
    That is our decision and we pay the Daily based on the amount of RAD we decide to pay.

    We are endeavouring to keep Mum in her own home as long as possible but that will depend on how her mind deteriorates.

    We have had an EPA since 2003 but due to Mum's condition over the past year we decided to lodge a certified copy with her bank last week. Thankfully the bank legals notified me yesterday that the EPA has been set up at the bank.
    One less thing to worry about when or if the time comes to move her into care.

  15. #89
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by skot View Post
    I do understand that the RAD can be any amount that we want on a sliding scale. From what i have read, the facility can not determine the amount of RAD that we pay.
    That is our decision and we pay the Daily based on the amount of RAD we decide to pay.

    We are endeavouring to keep Mum in her own home as long as possible but that will depend on how her mind deteriorates. .
    I sometimes wonder about this. I wonder if before they are too far gone its worth trying a rational discussion to convince them to move earlier so that they have a chance to settle before it all just gets too confusing. My MIL who does not have dementia is confused and miserable about where she is and at times appears to be just waiting to die. Mind you she has been moved between hospitals and care facilities 6 times in 3 months and even though she in a aged care facility she thinks she is in a hospital. We had broached the idea of moving a few years back but MIL was adamant she would only move when she had to.

  16. #90
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    Apr 2014
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    My mothers attitude, after my father took her for an early guided tour of a home, was "I can't live here, it's full of old people".
    He couldn't convince her that she was one of those "old people".

    A couple of years later she was happily living there making new friends.

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