Thread: Waking up and not getting back to sleep

Originally Posted by woodPixel

OK - I am just a bloke on the internet and NOT a doctor of medicine.... i.e DYOR and don't trust what Ive written

I just happened to be doing some work recently where I was reading about the relationship with CO2, H2O and elevated water generation in sleep.

Hypercapnia is the issue.

I will find the papers and link them here.

e.g. Experimental study on sleep quality affected by carbon dioxide concentration - PubMed

Basically, higher CO2 creates acidic conditions. CO2 breaks the glucose and forms copious H2O, which causes the wizzing.

One has high CO2 due to the apnoea.

Those who have diabetes are more prone to this (more glucose) and typically worse sleep (statistically)

It was a fascinating series of studies. I remembered it as I was laughing that we are basically inverse PLANTS... Glucose --> CO2 + H2O is effectively the opposite of photosynthesis.

Should that read....One has high CO2 due to the UNTREATED apnoea? During my sleep test my Oxygen levels fell to 63%, the common side effect of Apnoea is high blood pressure and when mine was treated my BP became normal for my age. I check the data from my machine at least once a week and if there are no mask or machine problems all indicators stay well within acceptable limits and have done since I was diagnosed about four years ago.

I'm only relating what I know here and it could be vastly wrong.

I just read up on this and it is fantastically complex, to me.

As I understand it, ones O2 levels are a percentage of the O2 attached to Haemoglobin. This percentage is what we measure in our thumb-readers.

This does NOT have anything to do with the levels of CO2 in the blood.

If the O2 level is 96%, this does not mean the left over 4% is CO2.

One can have a 98% O2 level, but be on the edge of death from CO2 concentrations.

The level of CO2 is transported in blood as a gas. I had to look it up, but eventually had a rather long chat with ChatGPT about it. Part of the conversation is below (ChatGPT and its kin are ASTOUNDING).

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is transported in the blood in three different forms: as dissolved CO2, as bicarbonate (HCO3-) ions, and as carbamino compounds.

While oxygen (O2) is primarily transported in the blood by hemoglobin, CO2 is primarily transported in the form of bicarbonate ions. Carbon dioxide diffuses into red blood cells (RBCs) where it is rapidly converted to carbonic acid (H2CO3) by the enzyme carbonic anhydrase. Carbonic acid then dissociates into bicarbonate ions (HCO3-) and hydrogen ions (H+). The bicarbonate ions diffuse out of the RBCs and into the plasma where they can be transported to the lungs for exhalation.

A small portion of CO2 can also be carried on hemoglobin. This occurs through the formation of carbamino compounds, which are formed when CO2 binds to amino groups on hemoglobin molecules. The amount of CO2 carried on hemoglobin is relatively small compared to the amount of CO2 transported as bicarbonate ions.

Overall, the majority of CO2 in the blood is transported as bicarbonate ions, with a smaller amount carried on hemoglobin and as dissolved CO2. This system allows for efficient transport of CO2 from the tissues to the lungs for exhalation.

Co2 levels are important as it is by expelling more Co2 we lose weight or expelling less causes weight gain. We are carbon based and C02 controls our weight. This is why aerobic exercise works causing weight loss but as we get fitter and expel less C02 weight loss usually plateaus and more exertion is needed.

It is as you say!

I was listening to Dr Karl on JJJ many years ago. He had a segment where the Hoi Polloi would ring him and ask interesting question.

One asked him how weight loss occurred. Where did the weight "go".

Many (he surveyed the audience) felt it dissipated as heat or magic - but its as you say, fats are turned into glucose, then ATP, then H2O and CO2.

We literally breathe it out.

Its so interesting!

Its easy to see why weight loss and sleep apnoea are linked.

(edit!) I asked ChatGPT to calculate the amount of CO2 in Kg that 1Kg of metabolised human fat creates. There is no definitive answer, but it did say "it can be estimated that the combustion of 1 kilogram of human fat could theoretically generate approximately 3.6 kilograms of CO2"

Food for thought.... ba dum tis!

I have used a cpap machine for over 20 odd years tried the splints didn't like them at all.I use a cpap so clean cleaner all the time because no way would I clean my machine when I started work at fiveish in the morning.If you suffer from dry throat it is usually a sign of trying to mouth breath [i use a humidifier all year] so nasal only attachments are not really that good. By the way I have had resmed machines and haven't had any issues in all the years I had to use one. [on my third ]Persevere the difference is to die for and the health benefits are something to consider. All the crap of being overweight and a smoker are somewhat bull I was extremely thin and a non smoker so in my humble opinion its horses for courses.