Thread: Why you should be wary about medications

heheh ...

In general for anything modestly complex I'd say you won't find a solution on the 'net.

You'll find some ideas; you'll be able to read about prescription drug side-effects; sometimes you'll find sufferer support groups and so on.

With GPs most of the presenting conditions they have to treat are run of the mill. But over time it happens that recommended interventions may change and some GPs don't keep up to speed on this (eg. treatment for peptic ulcers and even antiseptic hand treatment between patients). We should expect better, and at one level we are getting better with the emergence of general practice as a medical speciality.

But in general figuring out symptom and sign causation is more complex than diagnosing a blocked carby jet; there can be multiple causes and patients are not always very good at articulating their symptoms.

One thing that experienced GPs do is take the time to listen, and to develop a style of questioning that is likely to work.

Originally Posted by rsser

heheh ...

In general for anything modestly complex I'd say you won't find a solution on the 'net.

Ern

I take your point. I will see how I go in about a weeks time.

I am a least partly guilty on this thread of digressing. It is just one of my failings. Perhaps the common theme is one of ethics and integrity.

So here is a question. If you were actively engaged in researching a cure for an ailment when, completely out of the blue, you stumbled on a remedy that could be acquired for nix would you persist with your dollar gobbling research? Or would you say don't worry about this boys and girls everybody can have it for free.

My contention is that the drug company wades on regardless and possibly they may have even started off with that knowledge.

Regards
Paul

Based on past behaviour, I'd say a drug company would hide the study that showed that 'cheap substance X' fixed 'nasty health problem'; then they'd find the active ingredient in substance X, synthesize it, tack on a few ethyl/methyl/ketone groups to disguise what the source was, sell it as 'Wonderdrug 3000' at whatever the market will bear pricing and keep their fingers crossed that no-one does the research into what the active ingredient really is until their patent expires.

Of course this was found out and there was a nasty stink in the press about it, the CEO would golden parachute to another job, or simply retire, if he thought he could survive on a small weekly pittance roughly equivalent to the average yearly wage. This pittance would be assisted from time to time with small 'consulting' gigs for other companies which would ensure that he had sufficient frequent flyer miles to effectively travel free whenever he wanted to.

They'd probably also lobby the US FDA to skip some of the expensive testing required as 'there are similarities to already approved substances' as well as vigorously slapping patent infringement lawsuits onto any researchers working on similar drugs. All while paying....errr, sorry...contributing to politicians who promise to take a tough stand on intelectual property rights (and/or drugs - if substance X came from something like marijuana or opium poppies, we'd see a massive crackdown on producers).

But I'm not a cynic.....

To me Erns point is not exactly correct. My father suffered from gall bladder issues most of his life.
Dad researched his condition, had stacks of books on it and spent his time when sick frustrated by the GPs. In the end, he was an expert on the digestive tract, and was proven correct
My son was born with a blockage in his stomach. My wife and I researched that, knew the cure but had difficulties with doctors believing us. In the end my wife handed the specialist our son and said you deal with him. 3 days later he had his operation.
Sister had instances where she passed kidney gravel. She spent weeks researching calcium absorption and crystallization in the body. She now takes half a magnesium tablet per day and it never came back.
I researched my cancer, by the time I got into Peter Mac to be diagnosed, I knew the likely odds and prepared myself. I was asked what I wanted done and I was able to give the doctor the path I wished to follow.
So no, there is a great deal of information available in libraries and on the internet if you are determined enough to find out and smart enough not to embellish or lie to yourself.
But we are all different. Our needs differ as do our beliefs and abilities
It’s not my way or the highway. It has to be your way whatever that is.
I suffer from RA. An Australia researcher found they had great results with some drug they produced, clinical trials were great all was well. A drug company in the USA seemingly had patented an almost identical drug in a search for asthma cures and has this on the back shelf. It sits gathering dust whilst people suffer. I am not religious, so the best I can hope for is the old Scottish saying. You'l get yours Jimmy.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

There was a time when a doctor was revered for a man of integrity in the community, but I think that moment passed as the importance of the dollar to them reared it's head.
Regards
Paul

You are absolutely right

Well, half or more of the students coming through undergrad programs are now female. At age 19, when I teach them, those young women have more social and emotional intelligence than the young men by a country mile, and this augurs well for the profession if it's not driven out of them by medical socialisation.

rrobor, I was talking about the difficulty of finding a solution yourself, which is rather more than finding a diagnosis. That's not to say you shouldn't be active in boning up on a problem as well as trying to establish your relationship with a medico as a partnership rather than a paternalistic one. Some are open to this, some are not. In my medical dealings over decades I've seen much more openness among practitioners to this, to providing full information and to making decisions jointly.

As for GP income, frankly given the training investment it's pretty ordinary. There are plenty of GPs in high demand practices who are working their butts off for it. And last I looked about 25% of GPs were on salary rather than fees

To get back to your point Paul and the influences on drug development, yes of course, big pharma has to make a return on investment and a profit. This means discrepancy between patient need and market provision. Why is there relatively little drug development for tropical diseases? Because in the tropics the population is generally poor. Why little advance in antibiotic development? Because taking them may only be a ten day gig. Why so much work on drugs for mental illness, cholesterol control, arthritis, blood pressure, gastric reflux etc? Cos these are good long-term dependency drugs.

Did some digging on GP salaries and my data proved to be out of date (though a lot depends on how you measure).

For a prime-career GP doing 40-50 patient hours per week, after practice costs but pre-tax and pre-super contribution, income is around 220-270k p.a. acc to one survey. I assume those hours don't include consequential paperwork.

...

And the journal Emergency Medicine has decided not to take pharmaceutical company advertising any more on the grounds that it influences doctors prescribing decisions.

A point that came up whilst the pharmacist guy was at my house asked me if I had any muscle pains , I do have ,and he has admitted that Lipitor is the cause of this, they have finally admitted it!
So if any of you are on it and experience muscular aches and pains like arthritis now you know the cause

The manufacturer lists muscle and joint pain as a possible side-effect.

See

Lipitor: NPS - Better choices, Better health

There is always a price to pay for everything. Most medications are poisons in some form or other. There is no free ride, no magic bullet, No bolt from the above. Look, explore and understand. Walk in the fog that others know better than you, for you, and you are the fodder for experimentation. You are responsible for you.

Absolutely; scepticism rules.

Sometimes there are better alternatives to meds.

And think about maintaining health rather than waiting and dealing with illness: watch your diet, walk or cycle instead of driving when you can, don't stay in a bad job, work at your relationships.

Lipitor has been around for years. I swallow one each morning. I understand what it is, its side effects and its benefits. I take it for reasons the government does not acknowledge, My neighbour across the road consumed little else than potato chips for a week to get this drug for MS.
It is easy for those who have not been in the pit to give advice, The pit teaches many things, and removes all biases and follies.

Originally Posted by rrobor

It is easy for those who have not been in the pit to give advice, The pit teaches many things, and removes all biases and follies.

Absolutely. In particular it takes courage and resolve to go against a tide of opinion. Such is the sway of modern medicine.

Like so many facets of life, there may not be even a right way.

Another story

A few years back my mother-in-law developed a particularly bad leg ulcer. After about 18 months the doctors were psyching her up to have her leg amputated. We mentioned it to a naturopath friend, who volunteered that he had had some very good results with leg ulcers on elderly people.

It took a bit of persuading as my in-laws were very intrenched with the omnipotence of the GP, but she agreed to pay him a visit.

The leg ulcer responded to the naturopath's treatment and within a month had cleared up. What a lovely touchy feely story you might say.

A couple of years later mother-in-law developed another leg ulcer and returned to the doctor. She mentioned it to my SWMBO, who asked her why she had not returned to the naturopath. Her reply was,

"Oh, I never thought of that."

My point again is the narrowness of our perspective; A state not only within the medical fraternity, but the general public as well. We should all be a little open minded.

Regards
Paul

Yep.

I have cross country ski friends here in Melb who consult an acupuncturist who specialises in osteo work, and they've had good outcomes.