Thread: Australian Black Walnut

Remiss of me not to mention the Traditional owners,the Ngadjon J-ii.Their country is called 'Tutamonlin',locally known as Malanda Falls area.I thank elders past and present for welcoming me to country...for someone who loves trees,like I do,fabulous experience ...Mr Fiddleback
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Originally Posted by aussieadam

...... didn't realise we had a walnut species....
Is it just a marketing term, like Tassie Oak (not an Oak), or Vic Ash (not an Ash)? ....

Not so much "marketing terms" as names to attach to unfamiliar species. Instead of asking locals what names they'd used for thousands of years, early settlers often named the new trees they encountered because either the foliage or the wood looked like something that was familiar to them from the 'Old Dart'. Some epithet was usually applied to differentiate from the 'real' thing. So Eucalyptus regnans got "Victorian Ash" in that state because the wood looks a bit like northern hemisphere Ash (Fraxinus spp.), but it also looks a bit like northern hemisphere Oaks (Quercus spp.) from some angles so the Taswegians called it "oak". Flindersia bourjotiana got "Ash" because the foliage resembles that of a Fraxinus, and "silver" because the wood is silver-white (and not much like the wood of genuine ash). "She-oak" got the "she" because the wood has the large medullary rays of the true oaks, but it was considered inferior to the real thing (gender sensitivity was still 150 years in the future... ).

Quite a few trees got named because of the first impression created by sinking an axe into them - "Iron" appears in the common names of quite a few of our trees!

I second old croc - Qld walnut (which used to be named Endiandra palmerstoni but was recently reassigned to Cryptcarya), can be one of the most brutal woods on tool steel. It's highly variable, some trees seem to be fine and only mildly dulling whilst others just rip the edge off a plane blade or saw teeth in a few swipes. According to Morris Lake, the bigger & older the tree, the more siliceous the wood, so those nice old examples up near Malanda are probably best left for ensuing generations to admire as standing trees.

I've had pieces of Qld walnut that were quite good to work with, but one piece in particular virtually destroyed a not-too-cheap Liogier rasp. And as Elan said, it stinks!

Cheers,

I have a friend who has a dining setting that is unpleasantly odiferous. The smell seems to emanate from the table top, which is veneered and a dark brown colour reminiscent of Walnut. The finish is shellac. Does this sound like Qld Walnut? Is there anything that can be done to eliminate the smell? Refinish it with a lacquer or varnish perhaps? Any information from the brains trust would be greatly appreciated.

aldav, I've only noticed the unpleasant smell of walnut when working it, it hasn't come though on any finished article in my experience. The odour is often described as "faecal" (usually expressed in more vernacular terms! )

My first reaction would be to suggest either your friend's table isn't Qld walnut (though it was a very common veneer species for furniture & plywood), or it's had something spilled on it.

Some residual odours in wood can be virtually impossible to eliminate.....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Old Croc

Mate, it's nothing like genuine Walnut, 2 to 3 times heavier, very dense and heavy. As PowderPost said, it's murder on HSS on a woodlathe. What kind of sizes are you looking for?
Rgds,
Crocy.

Thanks Crocy
I'm not really looking for sizes, just wanted to see it "in the flesh" as it were.
No dramas. I'll come across it in my travels at some point, I'm sure

Originally Posted by Mr Fiddleback

At around 700kg m3 seasoned it certainly isn't 2-3 times heavier than American/European Walnut(around 650kg m3),and certainly not 'heavy' as such.I have milled this species in the past and found it sliced up quite easily...Mr Fiddleback

So I went and weighed some pieces to check. The American Walnut I have came from the Columbia River Valley in Oregon and comes in at 384kg per cubic metre. The Qld Black Walnut I cut from some pretty hard ground on Sluice Creek near East Evelyn Rd and comes in at 795kg per cubic metre. So twice as heavy. Maybe the Walnut that comes to Aus is from the East Coast of the US and has different growing conditions.
My experience with using the Aussie Walnut for woodturning is that it destroys good HSS in one pass, so I rough it out with Tungsten Carbide then do the finishing cut with a Gerry Glasser Hi-Tec gouge. The work is worth it as it is stunning timber.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Originally Posted by Old Croc

..... The American Walnut I have came from the Columbia River Valley in Oregon and comes in at 384kg per cubic metre. The Qld Black Walnut I cut from some pretty hard ground on Sluice Creek near East Evelyn Rd and comes in at 795kg per cubic metre......

Crocy me lad, I suspect either you made an arithmetical error in your calculation, or that ain't Juglans nigra that you weighed. If it is, it's the lightest piece of Black walnut ever recorded! It does have a range of densities, but I have never seen it quoted as little as that. Typically, it's comfortably over 0.6, so not that much behind "Qld walnut", which also has a range, is quoted as about 0.69 on average, so your bit from the upper Tableland is on the heavy side.

It's a lovely cabinet wood as a rule, planes, saws & chisels nicely (& has a pleasant smell when being worked). It takes a good finish, but as you say, so does Cryptocarya, when you finally bully it into shape. I used a fair bit of black walnut when living in Canada many years ago and would rate it up there with the best of the best as a cabinet wood...

East Evelyn, eh? That's a stone's throw away from the old home farm, which is just over 'the hill' from there (in the Eucalypt forest country)...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Crocy me lad, I suspect either you made an arithmetical error in your calculation, or that ain't Juglans nigra that you weighed. If it is, it's the lightest piece of Black walnut ever recorded! It does have a range of densities, but I have never seen it quoted as little as that. Typically, it's comfortably over 0.6, so not that much behind "Qld walnut", which also has a range, is quoted as about 0.69 on average, so your bit from the upper Tableland is on the heavy side

Correct...my sentiments as well...Mr Fiddleback

Originally Posted by IanW

Crocy me lad, I suspect either you made an arithmetical error in your calculation, or that ain't Juglans nigra that you weighed.

East Evelyn, eh? That's a stone's throw away from the old home farm, which is just over 'the hill' from there (in the Eucalypt forest country)...

Cheers,

The maths are fine Ian. I bought 4 blanks from a timber mill in Portland Oregon, took them back to Jerry in Tucson , used his lathe to spin them into rounds to reduce the weight. He commented on how light weight they were, but as I had never seen the stuff, let alone bought any, I thought no different. I am confident that it's Walnut timber, as that's all they sell, but are there different species? BTW, it's very light in colour also, sapwood maybe?
As for the Qld Walnut, I also have quite a lot of Qld Maple from the same property that is way heavier than Maple from other areas I cut. Just wondering if it's a variation due to the soil types and location?
Always interesting finding out about stuff like this.
Rgds,
Crocy.

I have turned some QLD Walnut – Endiandra palmerstonii (Lake) from a few sources and have found it to be quite variable, both in weight, colour and working properties. One board which is the most user friendly piece of QWN that I have ever had the pleasure to work, it is also the richest "old gold" chocolate / black in colour and not as dense as typical. It came from the burn pile from at JM Johnston's sawmill on the Baron River at Cairns in 1980.

The complete opposite is a number of blanks of spalted "Ivory Walnut" according to the gentleman I purchased them from which was the most testing piece of mongrel wood I have ever turned. The resluts were worth the effort but the other 6 or 7 blanks are still sitting there waiting for me to get the courage to have another go.

I would not doubt Crocy's maths as I have some of the densest Aust Red Cedar I have ever encountered which was purchased at the Maleny Wood Expo getting towards twice the weight of "normal" ARC.

Average density for Australian Walnut is around 690m3
Average density for American /European Walnut is around 600m3
Yes sometimes heavier densities occur within the species described,whether from age/genetics/soil etc...BUT I am talking averages
Maybe your blanks are carrying a bit of sapwood Old Croc,would explain why they are so light,sapwood is so much lighter than heartwood!
And of course knowing what species you have might shed some light as well...Mr Fiddleback

Originally Posted by Old Croc

The maths are fine Ian. I bought 4 blanks from a timber mill in Portland Oregon, took them back to Jerry in Tucson , used his lathe to spin them into rounds to reduce the weight. He commented on how light weight they were, but as I had never seen the stuff, let alone bought any, I thought no different. I am confident that it's Walnut timber, as that's all they sell, but are there different species? BTW, it's very light in colour also, sapwood maybe? ...

Crocy, there are several other species of Juglans in the U.S. besides J. nigra. One is called "butternut" (J. cinerea), which has wood that is much lighter (both in weight [average density around .4] & colour), but it's an eastern species, and not native to Oregon. I've got a table I made from butternut and it looks very much like pale black walnut, & indistinguishable if stained, but if you pick it up the illusion disappears very quickly. Of the two western species listed, the densities aren't all that much different from J. nigra. So I guess your wood will remain something of a mystery, either you just got a piece from a tree that grew under odd conditions, or maybe it is a bit of buttenut that you have - the density & pale colour match....

Originally Posted by Old Croc

.... As for the Qld Walnut, I also have quite a lot of Qld Maple from the same property that is way heavier than Maple from other areas I cut. Just wondering if it's a variation due to the soil types and location?
Always interesting finding out about stuff like this.....

I'm not sure how consistent it is, but yeah, trees growing in cooler conditions & on some soil types seem to be more dense than those growing in warmer areas. I've got some Maple that came from over near Ravenshoe and it's the densest I've ever struck. It's from a big old lonesome tree that was growing on a fence-line, which may have some bearing. Got phenomenal figure, too...

Cheers,

Ugly boring stuff . I can’t remember a nice piece yet from the many tons I’ve walked past . Someone must have made something nice out of it . Some guitars maybe . Think I’ve seen that . Still didn’t like the wood though . It was used a lot in the 1920s onwards as veneers on Aussie Art Deco and later stuff . I’d walk into houses and see two matching wardrobe with matching dressing tables . Matching Grand father Clock in the Hall and matching dinning table with six chairs in the dinning room and if you paid $30 each you never make a buck out of it . It wouldn’t sell . Only did that once . Unfortunately no ones ever wanted it since it was new . It’s a Pity . Those sort of sights come and go not to be seen again I think . Much prettier as standing trees .

Originally Posted by auscab

Ugly boring stuff . I can’t remember a nice piece yet from the many tons I’ve walked past . Someone must have made something nice out of it . Some guitars maybe . Think I’ve seen that . Still didn’t like the wood though . It was used a lot in the 1920s onwards as veneers on Aussie Art Deco and later stuff . I’d walk into houses and see two matching wardrobe with matching dressing tables . Matching Grand father Clock in the Hall and matching dinning table with six chairs in the dinning room and if you paid $30 each you never make a buck out of it . It wouldn’t sell . Only did that once . Unfortunately no ones ever wanted it since it was new . It’s a Pity . Those sort of sights come and go not to be seen again I think . Much prettier as standing trees .

I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or something like that. I really like the stuff if only it wasn't so abrasive. Here's one from my stash, remember I am not a photographer, but you get the idea. This bowl is 410mm across and 105mm deep.
Rgds,
Crocy.