Thread: Australian Red Cedar vs Western Red

Not better rarer.

Toona is usually wild because tip moth wrecks it, and because it was logged relentlessly it's now relatively rare.

GENERALLY it's denser than western and darker. WRC is typically about .33 relative density while toona is more like .4 - .45 even. However those are gross generalisations.

The only toona you see is either imported form new guinea/indonesia or salvaged. As far as I know no one has plantations of it.

No doubt someone will correct me.

There is Australian Cedar about but you have to look - some salvaged - other new. No plantations I know of but the wily sawyer generally has a couple he knows of.

In all my endeavours only found private entities offering any

There will be some in Brisbane in some months if you want it. A forum member who mills told me he was getting some in.

If you want me to contact him email me via the username links to the left and I'll pass your details on.

The australian red cedar has a distinct sweet dry roses smell when shaved and a dark line between the growth rings. The western red is more bland and uniform, softer, no dark lines and smells like pencil box cedar when shaved.

So which one's is poisonous?

Whilst eating or breathing any wood is not a good idea - my understanding is Western Red Cedar is particularly bad for you. Regards, Nic

Lovely timber! doesn't seem to go brittle with age like Western Red. I have used Aus. Red that was cut about 100 years ago and it worked like cheese.

The Americans were trying plantation growing of Toons in Hawaii. Don't think they have tip moth there.

Australian Red Cedar grows in rainforest type environment in Australia and is a 'hardwood'. Western Red Cedar is a 'softwood', or in other words, a pine tree!

Originally Posted by artme

Lovely timber! doesn't seem to go brittle with age like Western Red. I have used Aus. Red that was cut about 100 years ago and it worked like cheese.

The Americans were trying plantation growing of Toons in Hawaii. Don't think they have tip moth there.

My understanding is that because the soil was so deep and fertile the toonas grew too fast and produced timber like paper mache. Could be wrong, that is just waht I heard.

I suppose you have to start with: what criteria makes a timber "better" ?

WRC is cheaper usually, more readily available and proven performer in a number of applicationsfrom furniture to boats to guitar tops.

Toona is pretty, pretty rare, pretty expensive

I have a thing for certain timbers, and toona is one of them, but would I always choose it over wrc ? No.

They are a pretty tree standing also. I planted one in my back yard 12 years ago, but the borers got to it eventually.

Well an an old dog can learn some new tricks then - looks like I was barking up the wrong tree, so to speak - regarding using Australian Red Cedar for the joinery on the shack we are building.

That's going to push costs up a bit eh - if I could even find any.

Western or Surian Cedar seems the go - interesting subject though and it's got me searching around for more info.


Cheers all.

Hi BowlingBall,

Australian Red Cedar and Surian Cedar are the same tree. Surian looks the same, smells the same. It just comes from overseas and is cheaper than the local stuff. Information on strength ratings, durability etc, for Red Cedar would be the same for Surian. They may have different botanical names??

Red cedar does suffer badly from tip moth borer which gets into the growing tips and can kill the tree. However it also causes increased branching of the tree due to the damage, so more interesting grain.

I have several red cedar growing here. Those out in the open have suffered badly from tip moth damage. One is only just under canopy (the edge of a taller Silver Quandong) and has suffered a lot less than the others. Thus monoculture plantations of Red Cedar do not exist.

Cheers

Theberylbloke

As Bruce says, Australian 'cedar' is a hardwood, whilst Western red is a softwood, & more closely related to the 'real' cedar which is Cedar of Lebanon & its siblings. This is important - it means they have vastly different wood structures. Our Cedar is quite closely related to American Mahogany, which is considered the King of cabinet woods. In fact one of the names the early settlers gave it was 'bastard Mahogany'. That's a bit rough, & while it sure ain't the king, some people consider it a princeling, or at least a member of the aristrocracy! It's a useful & easily-worked cabinet wood, though rather soft, & requires extremely sharp tools & a gentle touch to avoid crushing it, when chiselling, for e.g. However, it's one of those woods that sand and polish up amazingly easily - hence its popularity in days of yore as a wood for local imitations of the fancy fashions of the day. (And I certainly would rather pit-saw a cedar log than a Redgum!) It was also used extensively for doors & window sash/frames, etc., long ago when we thought we could keep cutting down whatever we fancied forever.

In my experience, the imported Toonas (same genus, but different species names) are generally softer, at least when compared with wood from mature old trees from the Atherton tableland (with which I am most familiar) or northern NSW. However, this could simply be because of the sample size I've experienced, wrt imports. I've used a few lots of "Surian" & '"Kalantas" & anything firmer than a feather pillow falling on them will cause a dent.

Western red, (Thuja sp) is an excellent wood for weatherboards and window frames and sash & suchlike. Along with a handful of other softwoods (of which Huon pine is the all-time champ) it resists fungus and is extremely durable above ground, as is 'our' cedar. I have known termites to have a go at it, but they clearly don't relish it.
It's probably a little softer than the Toonas, but because of its softwood cell structure, it is NOT a wood that takes a fine finish - the typical marked difference in hardness between the earlywood & latewood of the growth rings makes it a bear to plane or sand to a flat surface (think of those nice ripple patterns in the sand after the tide goes out!), and you wouldn't try to French-polish it unless you were very keen (& very inexperienced - DAMHIK).

Cheers,

australian red cedar is a mutch nicer timber and smells good. the shavings can be used to somke meat witch is where all mine goes.

and from what i have heard here it is verry rare. maby i should fell some of the trees on my place.

i have 2 small trees (300mm at the bace) that have been got by the tip moth out in the padock. large dead one (60mm dia) on the side of the drive that has been dead for a few years tip moth again. 2 tiny ones (200mm) near the house still going strong. and there is about 5 or 6 down in the gully the biggest of with is 600mm diamiter and has well over 15m of clean trunk.

westurn red cedar imo is not worth working with it is not a cedar but a pine and is a discrace to the name.

as for plantations it cannot be grown in plantations as pines and hardwoods can because of the tip moth witch will quickly kill the entire plantation. it can however be planted in amongst pine plantations single trees with good sucess but this makes it hard to harvest and make s the harvesting or pines dificult.

Red cedar is quite common, even in Sydney and not difficult to find.
Cedar works in Grafton, Boutique Timbers at Rollands Plains all have plenty of red cedar for sale. Trees can grow to around 1 metre in diameter in around 70 years. They were heavily logged after the 2nd World War and 50 year old regrowth is now common on the NSW north coast
Forestry in Atherton Qld has occasional sales.

If you want to see plenty of trees, check to the right as you drive down the escapment to Wollongong, there are dozens that have grown up in the last 30-50 years
Regards
Greg