Thread: Brazilian Wood Sources

Hi speak to artme an Aussie now living in Brazil https://www.woodworkforums.com/f69/failure-108914/ see this post for instance he's been trying to track down a lathe since he's been here.

Ray

G'day again Runge and welcome to the enigma that is Brazil.

Lovely friendly and hospitable people. Just don't seem to like answering queries in a timely manner, if at all.


I have been having all sorts of problems getting information and answers. I have yet to properly nail the local timber merchant's foo to the floor soo he will stay still long enough to answer my Questions.

I'm still trying and will let you know If and when I succeed.

Originally Posted by artme

G'day again Runge and welcome to the enigma that is Brazil.

Lovely friendly and hospitable people. Just don't seem to like answering queries in a timely manner, if at all.

I have been having all sorts of problems getting information and answers. I have yet to properly nail the local timber merchant's foo to the floor soo he will stay still long enough to answer my Questions.

I'm still trying and will let you know If and when I succeed.

Hi artme - thanks for the response. Here are some websites that might be informative to you (provided you are able to read portuguese).

ABIMCI
http://www.aimex.com.br/
CIPEM
Fundao de Tecnologia Florestal e Geoprocessamento (Look closely at the links here)
http://www.inpa.gov.br/
Ibama Início
S I N D I M A S P :: SINDICATO DO COMÉRCIO ATACADISTA DE MADEIRAS DO ESTADO DE SÃO PAULO

http://www.remade.com.br/br/madeira_...e%20ex%F3ticas

Nova USA | Ipe Hardwood Decking, Brazilian Cherry Flooring, Exotic Hardwoods | Prefinished, Unfinished Floors (US importers)
Precious Woods (European importers)
BUSINESS :: WOOD AND WOOD PRODUCTS

http://www.ufmt.br/caef/images/Peso_...a_amazonia.htm
http://www.funtecg.org.br/arquivos/l...s_baquetas.doc
Banco de Dados de Madeiras Brasileiras
http://www.monumenta.gov.br/upload/C...1173383037.pdf
Araújo
http://www.cpafac.embrapa.br/pdf/tese_msc_hjba.pdf

http://www.icb.ufmg.br/treeatlan/Downloads/t02.pdf

While I've probably said it before, if you can find these woods then you have probably found the wood dealer that you want and need:

1) Pau Santo - Zollernia paraensis
2) Orelha de onca/Mucitaiba - Zollernia ilicifolia
3) Muirapixuna - Chamaecrista scleroxylon
4) Coracao-de-Negro - Swartzia panacoco or Swartzia corrugata
5) Pau Ferro - Libidibia (Caesalpinia) ferrea
6) Gombeira - Swartzia species
7) Baraúna - Schinopsis brasiliensis/glabra
8) (Casca-)Preciosa - Aniba canelilla (a more common wood)

http://www.imazon.org.br/novo2008/co...d.php?idpub=46

Thanks Runge. Was about to do a search for all that. Has saved me some time.

My Portuguese is minimal but the wife is a native and totally fluent so between us we might get something done.

Hi Runge,

Unless you want to import large quantities of wood,my advice is find a reliable local supplier & do business with him.You'll pay more but you don't really risk loosing $$$ abroad.

The wood business,simply put is:importer sells to retailer who in turn sells to individuals & local smaller businesses.

Another way would be:having a reliable contact in Brazil who can secure/pack & ship it to you with the proper paperwork.......by a reliable contact I mean a trusted friend,not someone you don't really know.

I've had good & bad experiences dealing directly with wood providers in India to import into Canada.They are not interested unless you want say one hundred Ebony Guitar Fretboards,which is a very small quantity for a producer.I imagine the same applies to Brazil because business on a large scale is completely different from doing small business on an individual's scale.

What happens if you sent $$$ over there & your order doesn't come in......ever?......or what if what you get after waiting for months is not what you ordered?
What are your recourses?.........plainly none!!!!

& when ordering as an individual,all exporters will require full payment before shipping your order,so If you deal with someone you don't really know&trust the best you can do is cross your fingers & hope everything goes well.

Also:some species are harder to come by than others.In other words if you are looking for something that is not really a ''commercial'' item,then it may take much more time& efforts to get it.

That's my $0.02

Originally Posted by lacan

Hi Runge,

Unless you want to import large quantities of wood,my advice is find a reliable local supplier & do business with him.You'll pay more but you don't really risk loosing $$$ abroad.

The wood business,simply put is:importer sells to retailer who in turn sells to individuals & local smaller businesses.

Another way would be:having a reliable contact in Brazil who can secure/pack & ship it to you with the proper paperwork.......by a reliable contact I mean a trusted friend,not someone you don't really know.

I've had good & bad experiences dealing directly with wood providers in India to import into Canada.They are not interested unless you want say one hundred Ebony Guitar Fretboards,which is a very small quantity for a producer.I imagine the same applies to Brazil because business on a large scale is completely different from doing small business on an individual's scale.

What happens if you sent $$$ over there & your order doesn't come in......ever?......or what if what you get after waiting for months is not what you ordered?
What are your recourses?.........plainly none!!!!

& when ordering as an individual,all exporters will require full payment before shipping your order,so If you deal with someone you don't really know&trust the best you can do is cross your fingers & hope everything goes well.

Also:some species are harder to come by than others.In other words if you are looking for something that is not really a ''commercial'' item,then it may take much more time& efforts to get it.

That's my $0.02

Hi Iacan,

Thanks for the thoughts above. The thing that surprises me is that there don't seem to be any stores that I can find with Google which sell exotic woods to individuals. There are several large importers of Brazilian woods in the US. They're not going to pay any attention to my off-the-wall requests. More specifically, they didn't.

There is a Canadian store, Les Bois Novack, that mentions many of these woods. However, they don't appear to have much more than a sample or two for most of them.

Since Inovak is a little more than a 100km from my place,I've not visited them yet but if you let me know what you're after I can call & enquire for you.You can pm me if you like.
I also feel that they carry only a couple boards from each species listed on their website but I'll know for sure when calling them.

I don't know if they list what you are looking for,but my preferred place for exotics is A&M Wood Specialty in Cambridge Ontario Canada,I've been doing business with these guys since the early 70's & never been disapointed.

A & M Wood Specialty

There are also other suppliers in Canada depending of what you want.

Lacan

Originally Posted by lacan

Since Inovak is a little more than a 100km from my place,I've not visited them yet but if you let me know what you're after I can call & enquire for you.You can pm me if you like.
I also feel that they carry only a couple boards from each species listed on their website but I'll know for sure when calling them.

I don't know if they list what you are looking for,but my preferred place for exotics is A&M Wood Specialty in Cambridge Ontario Canada,I've been doing business with these guys since the early 70's & never been disapointed.

A & M Wood Specialty

There are also other suppliers in Canada depending of what you want.

Lacan

Hi Lacan,

I'm on a quest to build things using these densest species in the world. If you see some REALLY esoteric woods in Canada that are about as dense as Lignum-Vitae, drop me a note.

Thanks

To my knowledge there are very few contenders here.

Denser than L Vitae is Black Ironwood ( Olea laurifolia ) from S.Africa.

Some Ebonies ( Diospyros sp. ) can be as dense as Lignum.

Verawood ( Bulnesia sp.) from S.A. is close to Lignum in that respect,it is called Palo Santo where it grows.Very heavy & oily wood.

That's about what comes to mind for now.

Sourcing Ebony is not too difficult.Sourcing Vera can be a bit more difficult but possible.I don't know about B.Ironwood sourcing & Lignum is on the CITES listing since a few years,means it cannot be shipped from another country to the U.S. unless ''under cover'' of course.I think several U.S. dealers do carry Lignum,especially in California & Florida.

Keep us posted

Lacan

Originally Posted by lacan

To my knowledge there are very few contenders here.

Denser than L Vitae is Black Ironwood ( Olea laurifolia ) from S.Africa.

Some Ebonies ( Diospyros sp. ) can be as dense as Lignum.

Verawood ( Bulnesia sp.) from S.A. is close to Lignum in that respect,it is called Palo Santo where it grows.Very heavy & oily wood.

That's about what comes to mind for now.

Sourcing Ebony is not too difficult.Sourcing Vera can be a bit more difficult but possible.I don't know about B.Ironwood sourcing & Lignum is on the CITES listing since a few years,means it cannot be shipped from another country to the U.S. unless ''under cover'' of course.I think several U.S. dealers do carry Lignum,especially in California & Florida.

Keep us posted

Lacan

The density matter for Olea "laurifolia" dates back to an article by Phillips in 1928. While I do not have the article, he apparently said the density was 1.49g/cc. Since then, the species is now correctly referred to as Olea capensis ssp. macrocarpa. Many sources list this wood at a far lower density. My block is 1.02g/cc. There must have been a significant mistake somewhere along the line here. This Olea wood is nowhere as dense as is reputed.

While the densities of various Diospyros species can be high, they rarely reach air-dried levels of 1.25g/cc.

Bulnesia arborea and sarmientoi are certainly on my list but they are pretty easy to get in the US. B. arborea is a much bigger tree and hence yields larger boards. The thing I really like about Bulnesia woods is their propensity to present the color green. After looking at the woods for a while now, I must say I like B. arborea better. My recent turning block has a density of ~1.32g/cc.

I while back this year, the Mexican government permitted the export of 53 Guaiacum sanctum logs. I now have seven boards which are an inch thick. Three of them are 94" long and 12"-15" wide.

What I'm looking for (from South America) is:

1) Orelha de onca/Mucitaiba - Zollernia ilicifolia
2) Muirapixuna - Chamaecrista scleroxylon
3) Coracao-de-Negro - Swartzia panacoco or Swartzia corrugata
4) Pau Ferro - Libidibia (Caesalpinia) ferrea
5) Baraúna - Schinopsis brasiliensis/glabra
6) Boco - Bocoa prouacensis
7) Ebano de Mexico - Libidibia (Caesalpinia) sclerocarpa
8) Charan - Libidibia glabrata
9) [] - Pouteria eugeniifolia
10) Black Ironwood - Krugiodendron ferreum
11) Tintitaco - Prosopis torquata
12) Banya - Swartzia bannia

These woods range from "very hard to get" to "insanely hard to get."

I would say most of the species you listed are indeed not commercial timbers,thus the difficuly of aquiring them especially if you need a certain quantity of them.

I would suggest that you take a look at the following link : International Wood Collectors Society

A friend of mine is a current member since around 20 years now & he has aquired quite a big lot of exotics over the years as the Society has members from almost evewhere around the globe and they exchange species between them.Perhaps this would help you secure what you are looking for.

I remember he got several big Lignum 8'' X 8'' X 4 feet long squares just before the CITES thing happened on that species & it was one member from Central America who helped him on that.

Originally Posted by artme

Thanks Runge. Was about to do a search for all that. Has saved me some time.

My Portuguese is minimal but the wife is a native and totally fluent so between us we might get something done.

Hi Artme,

I haven't heard anything from you recently on your Brazilian journey. Any new tidbits to share?

I just bought 160 board feet of "Pau Santo" (Zollernia paraensis) for a dresser project. The rub is that I do not have enough good boards that are at least 1.9 meters and a uniform dark color. If you find anything fitting the bill, please let me know. The wood is slightly denser that Gidgee (Acacia cambagei). Usually, it is near black but can exhibit lots of variety.

In looking for additional sources of Pau Santo, I ran into one American in Brazil who said "the Brazilian wood industry is in collapse." Not good for woodies but good for trees and forest creatures.

While rounding up my Pau Santo, the store had two large boards of Muirapixuna ( Chamaecrista scleroxylon ). I snatched them up immediately. Boards like that would be impossible to find. I also got a big turning square of Preciosa (Aniba canelilla), a board of Leopardwood (Roupala montana), and a small piece of Gombiera/Brazilian ebony (Swartzia species, probably Swartzia recurva).

Enclosed are some shots of the color variation seen in Zollernia paraensis = Pau Santo.

G'day Runge! Back in Aus. after some family problems in Brasil and the need to atrtend to some matters here.

Not the way we planned things, but that's life.


I can't comment on the Brasilian timber industry being in a state of collapse. Maybe if it is they have only themselves to blame thanks to their slack attitude. Amazing how I got no responses to any enquiries.

I wish you more luck than I had.

Originally Posted by artme

G'day Runge! Back in Aus. after some family problems in Brasil and the need to atrtend to some matters here.

Not the way we planned things, but that's life.


I can't comment on the Brasilian timber industry being in a state of collapse. Maybe if it is they have only themselves to blame thanks to their slack attitude. Amazing how I got no responses to any enquiries.

I wish you more luck than I had.

Hi Artme,

Sorry about the family problems. Let me know what you are looking for and I'll see if I know where you can find it.

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