Thread: Chain of custody...who cares?

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Whenever I drive through many rural areas I see paddocks that clearly haven't been used for yonks, and think "that land has too be useful for something".

Just a point of clarification: I don't mean "there's an empty padock - plant it out" because as Rustynail says paddocks are rotated, and different species require reasonably specific conditions to grow properly.

The more sustainable the production the more support it should be given. There are many species of timber I will not use and several suppliers I will not deal with due to the blatant disregard for the forests from which the timber comes.
The definition of sustainable production seems to be a broader topic than you are prepared to accept. In an ideal world thats ok but this is the real world. Call it negative if you will, but there needs to be a lot more careful thinking and planning before mass plantings and closing of old growth forests becomes the norm.

Look for FSC certified timber:

https://ic.fsc.org/certification.4.htm

Australia: Home | FSC Australia

Originally Posted by rustynail

The more sustainable the production the more support it should be given. There are many species of timber I will not use and several suppliers I will not deal with due to the blatant disregard for the forests from which the timber comes.
The definition of sustainable production seems to be a broader topic than you are prepared to accept. In an ideal world thats ok but this is the real world. Call it negative if you will, but there needs to be a lot more careful thinking and planning before mass plantings and closing of old growth forests becomes the norm.

I have milled hundreds of tonnes of plantation grown timber,have spent many hours talking to folk who manage and advocate plantations...i think my understanding of the topic is broader than you would ever imagine...don't patronise me rusty,i live in the real world...i have never suggested people go out and willy nilly plant trees all over the place...of course there needs to be intense planning and thought put into establishing timber plantations,but you know what,IT CAN BE DONE SUCCESSFULLY!If we all believe it is too difficult and unachievable,then it will be!

Originally Posted by rustynail

The more sustainable the production the more support it should be given. There are many species of timber I will not use and several suppliers I will not deal with due to the blatant disregard for the forests from which the timber comes.
The definition of sustainable production seems to be a broader topic than you are prepared to accept. In an ideal world thats ok but this is the real world. Call it negative if you will, but there needs to be a lot more careful thinking and planning before mass plantings and closing of old growth forests becomes the norm.

I know I'm flogging a dead horse, but nearly every retail timber yard, that sells merbau has blatant disregard for where the timber comes from.
Merbau is a rainforest product and is being clear felled desimating and adding new species of animals to the endangered list. As long as there is demand and a $ can be made nothing will change the only way I can see things changing is the attitude of the end user, and well that's not going to happen in my lifetime, not as long as the next door neighbor has a better looking deck.

All this seems to me to be a really strong argument for an increased use of veneers on sustainable sub-straight material.

It would mean educating the masses to understand that fine furniture and objet d'art can be made to fine tolerances and masterly crafted with veneers, which in the main are more stable and ('cos it's thinner) more plentiful that solid timber.

Instead of a tacky, cheap alternative to solid timber.


Cheers

Steve

Originally Posted by shedbound

I know I'm flogging a dead horse, but nearly every retail timber yard, that sells merbau has blatant disregard for where the timber comes from.
Merbau is a rainforest product and is being clear felled desimating and adding new species of animals to the endangered list. As long as there is demand and a $ can be made nothing will change the only way I can see things changing is the attitude of the end user, and well that's not going to happen in my lifetime, not as long as the next door neighbor has a better looking deck.

Yep..the end user needs to have their conscience pricked,and governments should stop/limit rainforest timbers from being imported into the country,or perhaps introduce heafy tarriffs to dissuade people from buying them!

As I see it, one of the difficulties is timber that is sold at shows and so on. Granted, this is a very small part of the market, but did anyone actually ask about the CoC of the timber they purchased at the shows? I know I didn't. Most of those dealers are reputable (Trend etc) but you'd have to think that at some of the more provincial shows the timber could come from anywhere - woodie sees gorgeous timber, starts dribbling, flash the cash.

Here's an interesting article
Illegal Hardwood Logging

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

As I see it, one of the difficulties is timber that is sold at shows and so on. Granted, this is a very small part of the market, but did anyone actually ask about the CoC of the timber they purchased at the shows? I know I didn't. Most of those dealers are reputable (Trend etc) but you'd have to think that at some of the more provincial shows the timber could come from anywhere - woodie sees gorgeous timber, starts dribbling, flash the cash.

You are on the money there Brett..but it is not just confined to the country shows..I mentioned Maleny wood show earlier in the thread,as their ethic is that every timber merchant/furniture maker that dispays their wares must show that the timber has been sourced sustainably...and good on them for doing so..

Originally Posted by BobL

The root cause of deforestation fashion and the way stuff is made so that it only lasts two years and then ends up in rubbish dumps.

It seems to me that this is a major problem. Just looking up and down the street atm (because the Council still hasn't done that cleanup, fully 4 weeks later) and the vast majority of stuff out there is the kind of stuff that Bob is referring to. After all the rain we've had, none of it is salvagable now - all pineboard, MDF, masonite etc, and all buggered. In fact the only thing left out the front of my place is some small chipboard shelves that someone broke apart, and then very neatly stacked (???). At least they were put together with dowels, rather than a nail gun.

Originally Posted by shedbound

Here's an interesting article
Illegal Hardwood Logging

Thanks for sharing that...300,000 log cube a month

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

...i believe it should be left to the private sector,not governments,as they are the ones with a poor track record when it comes to establishing and maintaining plantations.

Eeee, not so sure about that Chris. In the hands of small operators such as yourself, yes, but you guys aren't big enough to undertake such an operation on the scale that it would need to be. On the other hand, having a company such as Gunns involved would be deeply concerning to me. I just can't fathom that they would put sustainability and environmental welfare ahead of profits. Perhaps it needs to be a co-venture, with all the difficulties that would come with that. In sort, I just don't trust the big companies to do the right thing, at all.

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Anyway,i feel we are straying from what i had originally stated in this thread,which was,whether or not we cared where our timber comes from...are we willing to say no to timber that we suspect is from unsustainable sources,and find alternatives.

Yes we are, but it's a good discussion! To be frank, you'll only get answers from those who do care - I can't imagine anybody would respond with "don't care", even if that was the case.

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

I am deeply passioniate about the environment,this is why EVERYTHING that we mill and harvest is either salvaged or plantation grown..

Hear Hear! Trouble is, that attitude doesn't transfer to the companies that could undertake such things.

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Thanks for sharing that...300,000 log cube a month

Absolutely staggering statistics, and too think I was a trade rep once upon a time pushing this timber, This is when I became aware of what was happening, this was all explained back in the 90's to me by the wholesaler. But the same timber yard is still buying the same merbau from the same wholesaler. Greed......to quote my dear Mum, Money the route of all evil. and the ruination of the world.