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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    I used to be diligent about keeping a shed log,
    but then you cut it up and used it in something, too?
    Great intentions. I am a novice, but already I have stockpile items that I have no idea of the provenance of but nothing super-special so I'm not stressed by it

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Maddux View Post
    Euge,

    Well we all know the story... At some point some indigenous people were discussing the tree with Europeans and someone said that "[If this tree ever dies from drought, then this whole country is dead finish]".

    I feel confident that they would not have been confusing one tree with another, so then in that case, which is it? Which tree is the REAL Dead Finish from which the name is derived?

    My understanding, which, admittedly, is only based on word of mouth and what's available in publication, is that it was A. basaltica.

    Thoughts?

    Cheers,
    Luke
    Hi Luke, good to hear from you. When I raised this subject it was meant to inform / clarify what I knew about "dead finish” ie not to question any one identity. It was more a rhetorical question, inviting comment from members on my suggestions and descriptions.

    It arose after being asked "is this dead finish?” or seen a wood object labelled "dead finish" but then assigned a wrong botanical name. So assigning the correct botanical name requires correct identity and that does not come (unambiguously) from a common name, not without more explanation. This arises because a common name can be attributable to a number of very different species. Most know this now but it remains the cause of constant confusion. The IWCS booklet (Australian Trees and Shrubs) shows the many, many names applied to Australian woody plants.

    True, locals usually know their trees by local common names. But when wood is moved about from one state to another or country to another and different species are given the same name (eg “dead finish”, lancewood, rosewood, walnut, ironwood etc), the question can validly be asked ….. which one is it? Common names are often region specific and the best answer is… "it comes from this area and looks like this".... Some names are corruptions of aboriginal names (eg Boonry become boonery in common practice).

    Your imagined description Luke about how the name "dead finish” arose seems plausable. Thanks.

    My own interest is more in the physical properties of wood rather that the origin of common names. This results in studying the correct taxonomic, botanical and chemical nature of wood requiring the correct application of names (ie correct identity) to woods wherever possible. As I suggested the recommended name for A. basaltica is Red Lancewood. Not many woods called red lancewood so its more unique and less corruptible.


    There is no one (real) dead finish. If the REAL "dead finish" was to be shown, it can't be attributable to one species because wood examples of each of the half dozen species could be shown. And they would all look different because they are different .... A basaltica would be one.

    These are my views,
    Cheers Euge



  4. #18
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    And just to add to the confusion, the Acacia tetragonophylla in WA is different to the one in Qld. The WA one more a twisted stumpy shrub with trunk only 3-4", where as the Qld one grows into a decent tree.
    Neil
    ____________________________________________
    Every day presents an opportunity to learn something new

  5. #19
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    So which one do I have here?

    P1040851 (Medium).JPG

    A partial set of HNT Gordon shoulder planes. Dead finish, but which one? I bought them off a friend on the Forum. Some close ups.



    P1040852 (Medium).JPGP1040853 (Medium).JPGP1040854 (Medium).JPG

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  6. #20
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    Paul,

    Archidenropsis basaltica , otherwise know as Red Lancewood (or confusingly, dead finish)

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dai sensei View Post
    And just to add to the confusion, the Acacia tetragonophylla in WA is different to the one in Qld. The WA one more a twisted stumpy shrub with trunk only 3-4", where as the Qld one grows into a decent tree.
    Never seen Acacia tetragonophylla as "decent tree" in Qld or elsewhere... always been a spreading shrub 2 - 4 m, twisted & multi-stemmed. Some occasionally small trees.
    Then again (rarely) some shrubs or vines grow into trees

    Here is a good link: Acacia tetragonophylla | Atlas of Living Australia
    Last edited by Euge; 26th Aug 2019 at 01:16 PM. Reason: to add extra info & link

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euge View Post
    Never seen Acacia tetragonophylla as "decent tree" in Qld or elsewhere... always been a spreading shrub 2 - 4 m, twisted & multi-stemmed. Some occasionally small trees.
    Then again (rarely) some shrubs or vines grow into trees

    Here is a good link: Acacia tetragonophylla | Atlas of Living Australia
    Now you got me thinking. I've got a dia 500mm chunk of Dead Finish from QLD that I thought was the Acacia one, perhaps not, but wasn't the Red Lancewood one
    Neil
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  9. #23
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    Pictures of A. Basaltica, Red Lancewood what I know as Dead Finish20190826_214047.jpg20190826_183823.jpg
    As far as I know apparently the aboriginals were 'heard' to say that '' if that tree die, him white man, dead, finish". 20190826_183807.jpg20190826_183907.jpg
    The beeswing figure on the q'sawn face is beautiful.

  10. #24
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    Pictures of A. peuce, Purple Gidgee aka Waddywood20190826_232527.jpg20190826_183641.jpg20190826_175732.jpg20190826_175820.jpg20190826_232602.jpg
    I can only differentiate it from A. crombei because the last piece shows me the tree grew to around 12" diam.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippin Dale View Post
    Pictures of A. peuce, Purple Gidgee aka Waddywood20190826_232527.jpg20190826_183641.jpg20190826_175732.jpg20190826_175820.jpg20190826_232602.jpg
    I can only differentiate it from A. crombei because the last piece shows me the tree grew to around 12" diam.
    Cant see the connection with these pics of "gidgee" with the topic (Dead Finsh) CD.

    Neither do they look like Waddywood (A peuce) or Purple or Pink Gidgee (A. crombei) to me. Both these grow to med size trees (ie 12 in diam stems) but are quite different trees and neither is called dead finish.

    The earlier pic of dead finish / red lancewood with beeswing figure looks right though. Thanks for sharing

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euge View Post
    What is Dead Finish? (rhetorical question as I know)

    We often hear references to trees/ shrubs and their woods called DEAD FINISH.

    There are a number of species (not varieties) that are given that common name. Importantly, their woods are VERY different because they are from different species and not all are Acacias. All have other names that make them less easily confused but people prefer to continue to use "dead finish” for the drama of it. Here are some species that are referred to as "dead finish”"

    Acacia tetragonophylla (refers to its 4 sided spiky phyllodes, leaves of sorts) across much of dryland Australia. wood is very dense, fine textured and red brown in colour.

    Acacia carneorum: another rare dryland acacia shrub with prickly phylodes, but with a bright purple heartwood, often cracked and with borer holes. Most grows in western NSW and is probably a protected species now.

    Archidendropsis basaltica: Although a leguminous plant like acacias, it grows to a tree with ferny foliage, a pink-purple-red heartwood sometimes with dark streaks, and with a yellow sapwood. Its wood is dense and hard and an excellent turning wood. From central Queensland. Best called Red Lancewood.

    There is even a eucalypt called dead finish Eucalyptus cloeziana, or Gympie Messmate (see Australian Trees and Shrubs) and a shrub Cassinia quinquefaria!

    The more ambiguity the more confusion so unique / individual common names are preferred, avoiding poplar names.

    I can post pics if interested. (see below)
    Here are some pics requested

    Ac tetra 1.jpg Ac tera 2.jpg Ac tetra 3.jpg

    Unfinished to show approx features and colour. One on far right taken in sunlight, others in workshop. See descriptions above.
    1. Above: Acacia tetragonophylla (3 from different parts of the country). Left WA (10 cm log) and right SA and Qld (from memory).


    Ac. carn.jpg

    2. Above: Acacia carneorum with it bright purple heartwood is also called dead finish and has prickly phyllodes like the species above

    3. The most familiar species Archidenropsis basaltica is shown by others as tool handles so wont post pics

    Cheers Euge

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippin Dale View Post
    Pictures of A. peuce, Purple Gidgee aka Waddywood20190826_232527.jpg20190826_183641.jpg20190826_175732.jpg20190826_175820.jpg20190826_232602.jpg
    I can only differentiate it from A. crombei because the last piece shows me the tree grew to around 12" diam.
    Hi CD...

    Here is what woods of Acacia peuce (left) and Acacia crombiei (right) look like....

    Ac peuce.jpg Ac crombei.jpg

    Both from largish trees ...
    Left the waddywood was VERY old, long dead and sapwood was all gone. It has a deep / dark purple heartwood
    Right: the P Gidgee develops a a purple colour on exposure to light and is brighter in colour.

    NOTE: Neither is called "Dead Finish" though
    Both are exceedingly dense, hard, dryland species as most inland acacia of Australia are.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Liu View Post
    Hi Cliff. There are few more dead finish trees in West QLd. When I used to work the cattle station West Qld.Also known as Red lancewood.

    Red lancewood – Archidendropsis basaltica
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euge View Post
    ..... Red Lancewood is a more specific name for A. basaltica IMO and less likely to cause misunderstanding.

    Cheers
    I disagree with that, there is a marked variation in the colour & grain of some of this stuff depending on where it grows.
    None of the Archidendropsis basaltica that I collected west of Longreach was red, mostly brown with some pink/purple in it that fades after it has been cut.
    The piece with the wild grain came from the same property but was collected on the side of a sandy ridge.
    It was the largest solid tree that I have ever cut on the property.
    Most of the other large ones have had the middle taken out by termites.
    They continue to grow & thrive for years with a hollow centre.
    The colour/grain/stripes in the termite damaged ones can be much more pronounced than the undamaged ones.
    I still have some of that one with the wild grain, it is amazing to look at but is getting darker as it ages.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  16. #30
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    Other Australian native trees called lancewood are Acacia species.

    IE; Acacia shirleyi, Acacia doratoxylon & Acacia crassicarpa.

    Common names in general are misleading.

    A past member here arranged to swap some timber with me several years ago, he wanted Archidendropsis basaltica because he thought it would be red, it wasn't, he was disappointed.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

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