Thread: Green Messmate to be used on New House

Nothing wrong with green messmate as framing material but forget about it for verandah posts, Its likely to move unevenly & split while drying in such a large section. It will also most likely have gum veins which are not weather resistant.

At that size, you won't find anyone who will dry them for you as it is physically impossible.

Stack them with stickers between each layer to aid in air movement between them, most movement normally occurs in the first month of which probably won't be a lot and you can expect to see a bit of shrinkage as well especially across the surface.

Originally Posted by echnidna

Nothing wrong with green messmate as framing material but forget about it for verandah posts, Its likely to move unevenly & split while drying in such a large section. It will also most likely have gum veins which are not weather resistant.

Thanks echnidna
Not too fussed if it splits, as long as its only surface, it may add some character being a bit uneven. I have heard that there are products to use to make gum veins weather resitant. I am more worried about structurely whether sound for for brick veneer if it does move a little....

likely to be deep splits

Originally Posted by echnidna

likely to be deep splits

Now I am Perplexed. Yes I am novice & Im a little lost. DJ yes ok, echnidna No

I respect your opinion as your seem very knowledgable by what I have read on this site but "Why would it be good for framing joists & bearers & not Posts?"
Contray to what you have advised I've ask the Mill at Millgrove they have advised to use plenty of Linseed oil, Stack, stick & wrap the posts. (they maybe biased they want my $$)
I actually live on the old Mill site in Monbulk, my neighbour used to own the mill & log Messmate & he believes it should be fine. Many of the old chippys in this area advise me this was the only green timber they used when stick building many of the homes up here until late 60's & 70's.

Happy to hear all opinions & decide, if consensus is no I will slab it furniture....

I've seen plenty of posts from Messmate, yes some had some splits but not to the point where they are defective.

If as you say, you going to stack them with stickers and leave them for period of time, you'll be able to weed out the bad ones if any of them split badly.

Also when they say to wrap them, they mean a cover over them, not as in to wrap each post individually.

And another thing too, the area you're in is fairly good to timber climate wise.

Originally Posted by DJ's Timber

I've seen plenty of posts from Messmate, yes some had some splits but not to the point where they are defective.

If as you say, you going to stack them with stickers and leave them for period of time, you'll be able to weed out the bad ones if any of them split badly.

Also when they say to wrap them, they mean a cover over them, not as in to wrap each post individually.

And another thing too, the area you're in is fairly good to timber climate wise.

Thanks DJ I take your points on board is that cover with a tarp, black plastic, roof sheeting? Open air or in Shedding which is better over summer? I think I recognise some your photos from Bowerbird, do you do work for them?

Yep anything to keep the weather off them but to still allow air to circulate. If it's in a shed, it must still have a reasonable amount of airflow into and out of the shed.

I do a fair bit of their deliveries and some of their repair work on machines.

Not employed by them, I contract to them as needed which fits in nicely with my other rounds and work.

thanks DJ much appreciated
Cagga

Sorry to be negative.

But i am a builder and i know that i'm not allowed to use timber that hasn't been stress graded first. so unless you get some one in to stress grade it then it won't be covered as a structual component of your house.
Therefore if the post fails and falls down then no insurance.

Regards
Jamie

I know it is frustrating but thats politics.

Originally Posted by Jarrahrules

Sorry to be negative.

But i am a builder and i know that i'm not allowed to use timber that hasn't been stress graded first. so unless you get some one in to stress grade it then it won't be covered as a structual component of your house.
Therefore if the post fails and falls down then no insurance.

Regards
Jamie

I know it is frustrating but thats politics.

So how & who do I get to do this? & of Course HOW much? Jamie you have any experience in using messmate?
If this is the case when folks are using recycled timber eg bridge timbers & alike do they do this??

Thanks Jamie rather know now than later

Originally Posted by cagga

So how & who do I get to do this? & of Course HOW much? Jamie you have any experience in using messmate?
If this is the case when folks are using recycled timber eg bridge timbers & alike do they do this??

Thanks Jamie rather know now than later

Don't know if you're dealing with Tim or Colin at the mill, but they'll be able to provide all you need to know on this matter

Cagga,

not sure if the messmate you are talking about is the same as our messmate up here, but with respect to our messmate, both replies above are correct (sorry to make you more confused) a large post like 150sq is likley to get splitting - how much and how bad is dependant upon how much you can slow down the initial moisture loss after cutting. One way of slowing down the initial moisture loss is cut it, stack, sticker and strap it (let us know if you don't know how) then give it a sun cover, off the timber, like a tarp on posts. For the first couple of weeks, drop shadecloth around 3 sides, to minimise the fast loss of moisture from air flow. Every couple of weeks remove a side until the stack is bare all sides, but still has it's 'roof' and with the strapping make sure the straps stay tight throughout the process.

Green timber splits because the cells lose water too quick and the cell walls break - lots of cells walls breaking = lots of craks or big cracks.

One thing to be aware of a 6" post has to come from a really big tree for it to have a chance of being straight and true. I won't cut 4" posts from anything less than a 2' diameter log. Another way to get straight posts is to box the heart of a log, this will give you one nice straight post for every log, but depending on how you interpret the grading rules, you cannot use a 6" boxed heart post for structural timber.

As Jamie mentioned - the Building Code of Australia does state "All timber used for stuctural purposes shall be graded" Now not including any specific local council variations the BCA itself doesn't state how the timber must be graded. To this end, I am qualified to grade any timber (timber I cut or someone else cuts) to AS 2082-2000 and AS 2858-2001. AS 2082 covers hardwood and AS 2858 covers softwood. So Like DJ said, the fellows cuting your timber should be able to take care of this for you, just check with them. As for how much? I do it free as customer service, but charge out for someone else's timber.

Hope it helps and definately if you have other questions, chuck 'em up here

Originally Posted by Sigidi

Cagga,

One way of slowing down the initial moisture loss is cut it, stack, sticker and strap it (let us know if you don't know how) then give it a sun cover, off the timber, like a tarp on posts. For the first couple of weeks, drop shadecloth around 3 sides, to minimise the fast loss of moisture from air flow. Every couple of weeks remove a side until the stack is bare all sides, but still has it's 'roof' and with the strapping make sure the straps stay tight throughout the process.

Green timber splits because the cells lose water too quick and the cell walls break - lots of cells walls breaking = lots of craks or big cracks.

One thing to be aware of a 6" post has to come from a really big tree for it to have a chance of being straight and true. I won't cut 4" posts from anything less than a 2' diameter log. Another way to get straight posts is to box the heart of a log, this will give you one nice straight post for every log, but depending on how you interpret the grading rules, you cannot use a 6" boxed heart post for structural timber.

Hope it helps and definately if you have other questions, chuck 'em up here

Cheers Sigidi, some great help on air drying. Was planing using them on wooden pallets from the bricks underneath also. Should keep adding oil eg Linseed throughout the drying process to reduce to slow the drying process then re strap?
Plan is to use these post in March April of next year...

Have read many post from you & the others on Stack & sticker. But What I dont understand as nobody has really mentioned about Post strapping mainly slabs. With 25-30posts to be strapped do I strap them all together eg 5wide x 5 high or smaller groupings?

Size of the logs being milled are between 600-850mm diameter (sorry im metric) range of lengths from 3-5.5mtrs
Also keen for some slabbing to be done for furniture making later tables tops, outdoor furniture, bench tops. You guys suggest size most commonly used in these types of applications