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  1. #16
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    I might be interested in being the hub for this.
    I’m retired and have a big shed (full of ‘stuff’).
    In suburban Sydney.
    Also a ute.
    This could amount to a large box from the responses so far.
    The samples would need to be identified possibly with an ink marker on the back face.
    I would hate to be responsible for a thousand bits of wood and a thousand bits of paper.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

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  3. #17
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    Millmerran,QLD
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    If we take up Clear Out's kind offer, the posting options within Australia are best served by the "satchels" for larger quantities up to 5Kg. There are four sizes (all with the same 5Kg weight). Prices are from $9.55 to $19.65. Smaller quantities can be placed in "large letters." Three sizes available from 125g to 500g. Dimensions all the same at 260mm x 360mm x 20mm. Prices from $2.20 to $5.50.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  4. #18
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    Apr 2007
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    Adelaide Hills, South Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    If we take up Clear Out's kind offer, the posting options within Australia are best served by the "satchels" for larger quantities up to 5Kg. There are four sizes (all with the same 5Kg weight). Prices are from $9.55 to $19.65. Smaller quantities can be placed in "large letters." Three sizes available from 125g to 500g. Dimensions all the same at 260mm x 360mm x 20mm. Prices from $2.20 to $5.50.

    Regards
    Paul
    In my experience those satchels and the pre-paid 'large letters' are the way to go within Australia. They don't in themselves provide any physical protection for the contents, so the wrapping protection needs to be done before selecting the satchel/letter size.

    Thanks for stepping up to be the hub for this, Clear Out!

    My suggestion is that Clear Out just leaves the satchels/letters that he receives intact and just bundles them together into package sizes that are suitable for shipping to Italy. That way Paolo gets the samples with their associated contributor details together.

    And, if Clear Out can't resist having a peek, I must say I would find it hard to resist... then he will just have to re-wrap and re-seal each lot...
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  5. #19
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    Dec 2007
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    Sydney
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    Those prepaid satchels sound the way to go all right.
    I am currently on the road on the way to Brisbane via Tamworth and Murwillumbah so I may be missing off the forum a bit over the next week or so.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  6. #20
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    May 2022
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    Saronno (VA)
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    36
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    47

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    Quote Originally Posted by clear out View Post
    I might be interested in being the hub for this.
    I’m retired and have a big shed (full of ‘stuff’).
    In suburban Sydney.
    Also a ute.
    This could amount to a large box from the responses so far.
    The samples would need to be identified possibly with an ink marker on the back face.
    I would hate to be responsible for a thousand bits of wood and a thousand bits of paper.
    H.
    Thank you mate... this is really appreciated.
    Now I just have to sit back and relax, and wait for this big haul to be collected!
    I really look forward to it because I expect to find very high chatoyance on some of your species.
    Again, we are happy to pay shipping costs.

    Paolo

  7. #21
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    May 2022
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    Saronno (VA)
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    Hi everyone
    I was wondering if anybody gathered any samples for shipping to @clear out
    I really look forward to test some stuff from your continent!
    Thank you
    Paolo

  8. #22
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    Jun 2015
    Location
    Wolvi
    Posts
    381

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    Quote Originally Posted by chatometry View Post
    Hi everyone
    I was wondering if anybody gathered any samples for shipping to @clear out
    I really look forward to test some stuff from your continent!
    Thank you
    Paolo
    Work in progress, not long though.

  9. #23
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  10. #24
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    Apr 2015
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    Warragul Vic
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatometry View Post
    Hi everyone
    This is Paolo, from Italy, from the PZC Chatometry – A standard system to measure wood chatoyance team.
    We are mapping (measuring) wood chatoyance for common wood species around the world. Would you help us with Australian wood species?
    All we need is small samples - at least 120x40x0.6mm (see pics below); anything bigger works too.

    I understand that these wood species are commonly used:
    Silky oak
    Red Cedar
    Queensland Maple
    Australian Blackwood
    Sheoak
    Mango
    Tasmanian Oak
    Jarrah
    Tasmanian Myrtle
    Brown Salwood (not common)
    Maple silkwood (not common)
    Conkerberry (not common)
    Other acacia species?
    Any other...? (not common)

    Ideally, within each wood species we need samples from a few different logs. Therefore, either receiving samples from many different forum members or from members who have samples from different logs would really be helpful!
    This way we would be able to characterize chatoyance for Australian species - some of which are renowned for it - for the first time in history!

    Optionally, if any of you would be so kind as to act as a hub (i.e. everybody ship to the kind mate/lady and then he/she ships just one parcel to Italy), things get even easier.

    We could aim for shipment(s) to us around end of August to give everybody time to search through your inventories.

    Of course, we can pay for shipping!

    Thanks for reading!
    Paolo
    Hi Paolo,

    Your request was brought to my attention a few days ago. I see you have already received the usual very generous response from kind members here.


    A measure of chatoiance is interesting and difficult in my opinion, unless you are measuring LUSTRE and or reflectance change*. I often refer to LUSTRE with certain woods of certain species (some bold emphasis above). Chatoiance is another property showing depth and 3-D effect in some woods, beyond figure and lustre.

    There are thousands of woody species in Australia from many genera, some are commercial some craftwoods. Getting authenticity is one challenge, then getting various cuts (radial / tangential etc), then seeking variability within species will result in a BIG (long term) project that may be hard to verify authenticate and reproduce. Still, every journey begins with one step. I wish you luck. It will be interesting.

    You could consider joining The International Wood Collectors Society (IWCS) and seek samples specials from their members. Many members exchange and offer samples in 150 x 13 x 75 mm dimensions.

    Here is a link to the IWCS Australian FB Page: Wood Collectors of Australasia - IWCS - Home

    Best wishes, Eugene D (euge)

    PS: (edit extra) * MAYBE chatoiance you measure is a CHANGE of reflectance with motion (of observer, instrument or light)

  11. #25
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    May 2022
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    Dear Eugene
    Thank you very much for all the information you provided. The IWCS Australian page sounds very interesting and I will surely make use of it!

    What is "Lustre"?

    You are absolutely right in saying measuring chatoyance is a difficult job, as it depends on loads of parameters. Just to add one to your list, wood species with visible growth rings are often more chatoyant either in early growth or in late growth; therefore, if a flatcut sample is mainly late growth its result would be different from a mainly early growth sample.
    However, there is one fact that really comforts us: the results are often quite repeatable between different logs of the same species; just to make an example, out of 13 different Wenge logs we got PZC between 6.4 and 10.2, while out of 8 Etimoe logs we got PZC between 17.6 and 27.3, so we are absolutely confident in saying that Etimoe is far more chatoyant than Wenge.
    We measure it by lighting a sample with constant incidence angle and varying azimuthal angle, and measuring how each point shifts color.
    If you wish to know the details of the method, we are happy to share them.

    And yes, the thousands of species offered by your continent, including the hundreds of Acacias, are quite scary. I believe we should focus on a list of the most common and commercially important ones - any suggestions on such list would be highly appreciated.
    As for now, obtaining samples is the hardest part of the job.

    Thanks again
    Best regards
    Paolo

  12. #26
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    Apr 2015
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    Warragul Vic
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    Paulo,

    You asked what is LUSTRE? It is also called / spelt LUSTER by Americans. Here is one definition from a US Magazine (What makes wood beautiful | Wood).

    to me, its HIGH REFLECTIVITY from a finisly finished (without a surface coating) wood surface. The above reference says...

    Luster in the light: A wood that has luster reflects light from its cell walls and appears to have a natural SHEEN. But any infiltrates in a wood's cell walls that give it color reduce its luster. Because of this, light-colored hardwoods will have luster, as does the light sapwood of darker hardwoods.

    best wishes, Euge

  13. #27
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    May 2022
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    Thank you
    So, just so that I can understand better, would you consider African Ebony or European Boxwood to have "Lustre"?
    They are both extremely compact and they can be fine-sanded to a mirror-like surface, but there is no chatoyance at all.
    "Lustre" and "Chatoyance" are two different things, am I right?
    Paolo

  14. #28
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    Warragul Vic
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatometry View Post
    Thank you
    So, just so that I can understand better, would you consider African Ebony or European Boxwood to have "Lustre"?
    They are both extremely compact and they can be fine-sanded to a mirror-like surface, but there is no chatoyance at all.
    "Lustre" and "Chatoyance" are two different things, am I right?
    Paolo
    This is my own view of luster and chatoiance. I am no expert in this field, just occassionaly opinionated.

    Both terms are closely related. Both are based on reflectance from a uncoated wood surface. (Surface coating can change reflectance.) Chatoince imo is based on the change in reflectance in high luster wood as the source of light, or the oberver, moves and views this wood. The change in reflectance can give the impression of depth (3-D effect) in the wood.

    But the same species can be dull or have a high luster. Australian blackwood (Acacia melanoxylon) from different sources / regions can show dramatic differences., from low chatoiance and lustre up to very high chatoiance and lustre.

    To answer your question: the reflectivity from any surface depends on it colour or absorbtion of light illuminating it. This depends on the angles and cut eg radial / tangential etc and the cellular structure of species. Black woods like ebony absorb most of the light. They lack luster, reflectivity and chatoiance imo. French Boxwood similarly but less so due to it being more reflective (pale). Both are dense and fine grained as you say. However take satinwood (there are few with that name) eg Ceylon Satinwood, it is dense, fine textured and has a high lustre and reflectance and good chatoiance too from my experience.

    I hope these personal views are of some help with us woodies understanding terminology. But they are like most opinions subject to change based on experience or what we learn or see.

    Best wishes, Euge

  15. #29
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    Thank you very much Eugene.
    This clarifies a lot to me.
    And yes, we also found visible chatoyance on Chloroxylon Swietenia (Ceylon Satinwood, isn't it?)

    Satinwood – PZC Chatometry

    However, the point you mentioned about blackwood being
    very different from region to region is very interesting. Would you be able to pinpoint two regions from which you would expect blackwood to be significantly different?
    Then we could compare chatoyance and other properties trying to understand what makes the difference.

    Thanks again
    Paolo

  16. #30
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    I am away so can’t be of any help at the moment.
    Others here may be helpful.

    Regional & intra species seem apparent in our Blackwood. I will illustrate these with pics when I return home. Cheers Eugene

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